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Old 02-22-2010, 09:04 PM   #1
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Well i was completely wrong about using unprotected batteries. The 5 Volt Detonator did nothing to stop what happened. The vent holes may have helped to minimize the explosion but they did not stop it. It was pretty bad, I come to the forum tonight humbled and regretfull I ever used unprotected batteries.

OK so I had just gott some new Bright Blue CR2 batteries from Ebay. They were only a week old. They blew up and burned my leg, and scared the hell out of me. I had the Detonator in my pocket and I must have forgotten to turn it off or maybe it was off, I'm not sure.

Anyway " Boom" was the sound it made. I didn't have a chance to do any thing. The vent holes - did nothing. I do not recomend using Un Protected batteries at all. This could have been much worse if I was driving or holding it up to my face. I have heard of some protected CR2's but I do not know if they will run the 510 atty that is in my Detonator. I know some protected CR2's are out there and some are being developed / tested. If anyone has more info about Protected CR2's please post it up here.

I want everyone to be aware of what happen to me. Be carefull and stop using unprotected CR2's immediatly. This was much worse than I thought it would be. The explosion went through my pants pocket , boxers and into my leg. The JB weld nose cone held up fine.










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Old 02-22-2010, 09:35 PM   #2
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that looks pretty painful there thanks for the visuals. one reason i dont put anything in that pocket. had a nasty zippo incident in basic training with a bit too much fluid on a sensitive place but no explosion.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:41 PM   #3
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Sorry for your injury Robert. And i hope you get better.

There is alot of talk about batteries on the forum (from myself as well)right now. So this is an example of why to make sure your DIY's are protected.

A suggestion i'm only noticing due to my research on batteries right now. If you plan on throwing the detonator back in your pocket perhaps make an extender for the battery compartment and use PTC protected CR123's they're only 1 mm wider in diameter and 9 mm longer but they are rechargeable and protected.

Last edited by MichaelMurder; 02-22-2010 at 09:45 PM..
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:55 PM   #4
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Just a quick comment, or two, or three for now, I'm sure I'll "contribute" more as time goes on and glad nothing bad really happened because of this.
One, as shocked as you were, the "explosion" blew the guts out of one battery (just one right") and the gas discharged was more than the vents come take and the butt end came out. Sparks and burning lithium came out the end and did some damage. Scary, for sure, and on a larger scale than a standard battery doing the same thing, but less than could happen with a laptop battery while you sit and type.

An 85wh, 11.1 volt has 9 2600mah 18650 cells in a 3x3 series/parrallel configuration.
These are all UNPROTECTED CELLS. The protection is in the battery pack, but external to the cells themselves. Next time you shut your laptop down, take the battery pack and just hold it and look at the size of that sucka.

Physically the weak point in the flashlight mod is the butt end. And it should be. Yours did it's job, physically. The spewing sparks and bits of battery need to go somewhere, and the butt end is the direction I would prefer.

Electrically there is more to be determined.
Li-ion cells have had "construction quality" concerns in the past. Are cheap cells really cheaper, does spending more mean better quality?
What is really going on with "2-cell mods" might need a little more though and investigation. That statement that it might have been left on, and what is going on when a 2-cell mod starts to get a little low may be a lead to follow.

I think this may be an opportunity to improve the design of the detonator to not detonate (sorry, just couldn't resist). Individual cell monitoring for charge might be one additional complexity to consider adding. Cell balance while drawing current is the primary risk with unprotected cells in series. Active cell monitoring is one form of "protection". This means a contact at the midpoint and a modification to the "pack".

A positive means of controlling ON and OFF such as a timer circuit, or not having a continuous ON state at all. How many folks "forget" to turn the coffee pot off when they leave for vacation? Don't leave it to memory, make it go off on it's own.

I also caution folks to not put too much FAITH in protected cells. Protection circuits can go bad. Smart chargers can fail and get stupid. Don't put your charging station next to your EverClear. While many failure modes just stop operation, some can set up the same situation that happened to you.

Did the regulator survive? Can you determine if it is still operational? If you haven't tossed out all the parts, closely examine every millimeter for any component that survived, including soldered connection, wires, LEDs, switches. Start a Failure Analysis before doing anything to this valuable test unit.

Have a couple more cocktails, calm down, whew what an experience, and use this to your advantage. Sounds like an opportunity here.


Rocket

and a late comment to this post from the Swamp Lady (in nursing school).
Wound Care. You might want to consider chemicals introduced to the skin, blood stream during this event. Lots of water, Epsom Salt bath, salt water, just lots of water. Hot bath, a couple Scotch's, triple antibiotic. Clear the chemicals out, clear the mind out, clear the germs out, in that order.

Last edited by Rocketman; 02-22-2010 at 11:49 PM..
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:50 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by MichaelMurder View Post
Sorry for your injury Robert. And i hope you get better.

There is alot of talk about batteries on the forum (from myself as well)right now. So this is an example of why to make sure your DIY's are protected.

A suggestion i'm only noticing due to my research on batteries right now. If you plan on throwing the detonator back in your pocket perhaps make an extender for the battery compartment and use PTC protected CR123's they're only 1 mm wider in diameter and 9 mm longer but they are rechargeable and protected.
Please by all means if you can figure out a way to make an extension sleeve for these flashlights I would love to use CR123a's Protected- I have allways been thinking of that - I guess maybe I could just cut a sleeve out of another flashlight and maybe use a tap and dye to put threads on both ends? But I'm not sure if that would work- the aluminum is pretty thin?

--------------------

Rocket- I think the Detonator survied - it looks pretty good inside - except for the soot. But to test it I would need to put some CR2's back in it----and right now I have PTSD- I keep thinking everything I look at is going to blow up- hell I look at a dog toy and it kinda feel like it might blow up? lol
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:56 PM   #6
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Oh shit, we have dog toys.

Not no more, dogs and the toys outside

Bag and tag, get to it later.

How many millimeters can you gain at the butt end if you eliminate the switch there?
A "cap" at the atty end could add space, just make sure it's still the "strong end".

I wonder what would happen with one of those "pipe bomb" MODS. Would they contain the blast, sort of go blump?

Bag and tag the remains, try the bath, scotch, neosporin for a while.

R

Last edited by Rocketman; 02-23-2010 at 01:14 AM.. Reason: The BLUMP, blow-up proof 5 volt pipe MOD, cool
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:07 AM   #7
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Please by all means if you can figure out a way to make an extension sleeve for these flashlights I would love to use CR123a's Protected- I have allways been thinking of that - I guess maybe I could just cut a sleeve out of another flashlight and maybe use a tap and dye to put threads on both ends? But I'm not sure if that would work- the aluminum is pretty thin?
I'll look into it. Altohough theoretically you could make it out of the center piece of one of the flashlights. If i'm correct the central smooth area is would be optimal in both ID and OD. If you have a hacksaw and a tap and die available you could probably make a several extenders out of one flashlight.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:09 AM   #8
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God what i would do to have a caliper and a ruler right now. LOL.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:26 AM   #9
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Well I don't know if it makes a difference by I won't buy generic looking versions. What brand are those. The ones you bought aren't Retail ones.

A retail batt should look like this:







Took a lot of guts to post this, your critics will be having a field day.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:33 AM   #10
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Took a lot of guts to post this, your critics will be having a field day.
<-------I've got your back.

Not only gutsy but honorable as well.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:35 AM   #11
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Well JJ,
I know a lot of engineers that won't buy Retail products, you know, the ones these people sell to the smart, general public.

I just love the retail 3000mah 18650, and the cheap way they attached the protection board. Sorry, but lithium battery quality isn't indicated by color, packaging.

I believe TRUST comes from the manufacturer, not from the name.

A low quality lithium cell just may be a mistake waiting to happen.

I often buy the cheap TRUSTFIRE and ULTRAFIRE cells, because I am cheap. No other reason, and surely not because I think they offer better quality. A manufacturer can LICENSE the trustfire logo by the way AND MAKE THEM IN HIS OWN GARAGE FACTORY

These are mass marketed, make the buck, get out and make something else products.


and MandM posted while I was typing.
Ditto on the honorable part.
You have added to the knowledge and experience base for all us modders.

Thank You Sir

Last edited by Rocketman; 02-23-2010 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:50 AM   #12
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I thought Ultra Fire might be better also but look at the Ultra fire I got 3 days ago- What is written on them is a lie- There is NO PCB on these batteries- it is a complete lie!

I asked Cisco - in Video Chat on Nu- Vapor he has been testing protected CR2's that are only 600mah- the problem with them he saysa is that the PCB will not allow enough current to flow to fire a 510 atty.

Also he showed me CR2 with a PCB- they have a little ridge at the bottom and are slightly 1-2 mm longer- The PCB has to take up some space- a PCB has to be somewhere and take up space if it's there! These do no- they are exactly the same size as any unprotected CR2 I have used -

Ultra Fire is lying or who ever they have make these for them is lying or These are just claiming to be Ultra Fire. Anyway- when I bought these they didn't mention any PCB- They just showed up at my door with this written on them.

Watch Out- we don't know what battery factory makes what- I wont use CR2's to vape anymore!

Lie- imo


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Old 02-23-2010, 10:46 AM   #13
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I buy all my mod batts from usa batt companys.. They are the real thing.. Had a china batt gas on me when I was charging it.. Thats when I went USA batts... And on there sites you can ask them anything you want.. They will send you via email any info you need... They do cost a little more but piece of mind makes up for it.. I have some that I have been recharging for a year now.. No problems...
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:50 AM   #14
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Here is the site.. ALL-BATTERY.COM
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:37 PM   #15
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I buy all my mod batts from usa batt companys.. They are the real thing.. Had a china batt gas on me when I was charging it.. Thats when I went USA batts... And on there sites you can ask them anything you want.. They will send you via email any info you need... They do cost a little more but piece of mind makes up for it.. I have some that I have been recharging for a year now.. No problems...
Link to an American batt, the site you provided has all Chinese batts.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:57 PM   #16
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HOLY CRAP! I have PTSD just from looking at the photos!
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:26 PM   #17
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I thought Ultra Fire might be better also but look at the Ultra fire I got 3 days ago- What is written on them is a lie- There is NO PCB on these batteries- it is a complete lie!

I asked Cisco - in Video Chat on Nu- Vapor he has been testing protected CR2's that are only 600mah- the problem with them he saysa is that the PCB will not allow enough current to flow to fire a 510 atty.

Also he showed me CR2 with a PCB- they have a little ridge at the bottom and are slightly 1-2 mm longer- The PCB has to take up some space- a PCB has to be somewhere and take up space if it's there! These do no- they are exactly the same size as any unprotected CR2 I have used -

Ultra Fire is lying or who ever they have make these for them is lying or These are just claiming to be Ultra Fire. Anyway- when I bought these they didn't mention any PCB- They just showed up at my door with this written on them.

Watch Out- we don't know what battery factory makes what- I wont use CR2's to vape anymore!

Lie- imo


Lie- imo
Well those don't look right either Robert (although they do have the official logo), don't know your source but here's a comment from another forum's CR2 thread that applies to your first batts, Rule #7:
Quote:
7) DO NOT buy batteries known to suck. (blue CR2's from ebay for example)
The UltraFire 3.0V retails I've always seen don't say CR2 and have a number correlating to the size i.e. TR 15270.

Although usually sold out this place has the 'official' batts at dirt cheap prices. Note the prices include shipping.

Flashlights, Batteries, etc : High Tech DealZ, Simplifying the LASER Hobby!
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:07 PM   #18
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OMG!! It looks like a bomb went off in your pocket. I am sooooo glad you weren't more seriously hurt. Thanks for the warning but that sure was a tough way to have prove it.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:49 AM   #19
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Here is the site.. ALL-BATTERY.COM
That's where I got my Tenergys.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:31 PM   #20
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OUCH!

Dang Robert I hope you ok!!
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:40 PM   #21
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Yeah I'm OK everybody! btw- A new 5 volt Mod is on the way I have figured out a way for the basic Detonator desigmn to use 2 CR123a's- Protected!
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:21 PM   #22
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Yeah I'm OK everybody! btw- A new 5 volt Mod is on the way I have figured out a way for the basic Detonator desigmn to use 2 CR123a's- Protected!
I am glad to hear it..now about those lead lined jockey shorts....
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:13 AM   #23
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Glad to hear buddy
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:48 PM   #24
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The leg is healing pretty good, Thanks for all your kind comments.

4 Days after the explosion I have completely re-designed the Detonator so that it uses protected CR123 batteries. The new batteries seem to last much longer, and hit better. The Detonator still uses a voltage regulator and every hit is consistant 5 volts. There is no drop off like a PV using a resistor to achieve 5 volts. Every time the button is pushed you get exactly 5.00 volt to the 510 attomizer.

I will be making a new DIY video soon - so you will be able to make your own 5 volt Protected Detonator CR123a.
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Old 08-27-2010, 07:16 AM   #25
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ouch! looks like someone put a blowtorch to your leg. hope it healed up good. (i know this is an old thread)
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