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Old 01-20-2012, 08:28 AM   #1
Rocketman
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I've read various rants about the quality of the various ingredients we use in DIY e-juice. Chinese Nicotine Vs. American made Nicotine, Propylene Glycol from the 'Feed Store', Glycerin from Wally World, and now Flavor additives.
SOoo, why not just 'One more rant'?

From 'way back' when I started doing my own DIY e-juice I was more concerned about the TRACEABILITY of the MAJOR INGREDIENTS like PG and VG. The potential for strange contaminants, on a purely 'percentage' basis, justs seems higher for the major ingredients. I posted my views on PG and VG in the past. Go find my old threads if you want.

While some chemical processes have dangerous by-products that could remain in the final product, the chance of getting 'free extra chemicals' seems to me to be more of a 'human error' factor. We've seen this is many automated food processes where the 'system' is not completely cleaned before a different product is processed (frequently in U.S. food processing plants). The chance of contamination or errors in the quantities of ingredients just seems more likely when multiple products are processed with the same equipment, or when a product contains several ingredients. PG and VG are usually processed in 1000 gallon batches, contain only one ingredient, and when purchased 'close' to the source, have minimal 'human' intervention.

I'm sure that most vapers have a concern over vaping Chinese chemicals and that has driven some vendors to claim "Made in the USA" as an assurance of getting a high quality product. Based on reported errors in many U.S. facilities, I'm not so sure about that. But, none the less, made in the USA is an advertising point.

Back to the point. What ingredients have the highest potential for the introduction of 'Strange Chemicals'?

A percentage breakdown of my typical DIY batch of e-juice:
40 to 45% Vegetable Glycerin,
40 to 45% Propylene Glycol,
8 to 10% Flavoring,
3 to 6% Water,
1.2% Nicotine.

Note that the smallest ingredient is the Nicotine.
If I am careful about the source of my PG and VG, then the ingredient with the next highest percentage is the FLAVOR.

After the PG and VG, the next most likely source of dangerous unknown substances, IMHO, is the flavorings added to e-juice. I have eliminated flavors with lots of extra coloring, and those that use unknown proprietary recipes (except my RedBull) to minimize the unknown ingredients put in 'on purpose'.

Why then would someone hype Chinese flavors over U.S. made flavors after making such a 'Big Deal' about U.S. made Nicotine? The 'sheep' do seem to be happy about it though

Rocky
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A good e-juice, fresh carto, and 3.7 volts from a REALLY BIG battery works for me.

Nic Juice, Pop Tarts and NATO Ammo, that's where my money's at
SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM
Same Sheet, Different Day
The Shutdown was fun while it lasted.

Last edited by Rocketman; 01-20-2012 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:11 PM   #2
mrwizard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
While some chemical processes have dangerous by-products that could remain in the final product, the chance of getting 'free extra chemicals' seems to me to be more of a 'human error' factor. We've seen this is many automated food processes where the 'system' is not completely cleaned before a different product is processed (frequently in U.S. food processing plants). The chance of contamination or errors in the quantities of ingredients just seems more likely when multiple products are processed with the same equipment, or when a product contains several ingredients. PG and VG are usually processed in 1000 gallon batches, contain only one ingredient, and when purchased 'close' to the source, have minimal 'human' intervention.
Case in point, when a widely used distributor for VG in the ecig industry decided to start carrying PG, I placed the first order with them.
What I got was hazy looking compared to the crystal clear PG we're used to seeing.
While waiting for the distributor to reply, I consulted with Rocky on what kind of contamination or conditions would cause PG to turn hazy/cloudy.
It turns out the when the warehouse workers repackaged the PG they used a drum pump that had previously been used for Palm oil and failed to properly clean it out first.
Luckily the Palm oil caused a very visible emulsion in the PG, but what if that pump had been used on something other than Palm oil first?
Something that didn't cause a visible flag, and was a dangerous health hazard?

...and yes, this was a 100% American made product passing through an American distributor. Foreign countries definitely don't own the rights to industrial accidents and mistakes.

Keep 'em thinking, Professor.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:00 PM   #3
vapeip
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So true Rocket

And yes sadly your right Professor our factory's mess up too
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:02 AM   #4
Rocketman
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Error's will always be an issue with products you buy.
Whether it's an Automobile, Laptop Battery, Peanut Butter, or e-Juice.
Don't believe for a New York minute that you won't ever be concerned about a product safety recall.

Buying a product that has a 'long' supply chain is like buying a Rolexus from a street dealer. You have no idea where it originated or where it's been. How is a product recall conducted when the supply chain is just a little dubious?
Could you trust your source to actually initiate a recall? Are you certain they would disclose where a product came from if there was an issue?

As far as Chinese sources or U.S. sources for e-juice ingredients, why would you trust an unknown "small Chinese source" over a reputable source, or get excited to get your hands on some of this "Chinese Goodness" without knowing anything about what's in it or where it originated? Some of the Chinese manufactures are large reliable operations suppying several point of sale vendors. Secret sources scare me.

Just be careful about falling in line with hype and enthusiasm over a new product line. Know as much as you can about the stuff you eat, drink, or inhale.

Rocky
__________________
A good e-juice, fresh carto, and 3.7 volts from a REALLY BIG battery works for me.

Nic Juice, Pop Tarts and NATO Ammo, that's where my money's at
SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM
Same Sheet, Different Day
The Shutdown was fun while it lasted.

Last edited by Rocketman; 01-21-2012 at 11:06 AM..
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Error's will always be an issue with products you buy.
Whether it's an Automobile, Laptop Battery, Peanut Butter, or e-Juice.
Don't believe for a New York minute that you won't ever be concerned about a product safety recall.

Buying a product that has a 'long' supply chain is like buying a Rolexus from a street dealer. You have no idea where it originated or where it's been. How is a product recall conducted when the supply chain is just a little dubious?
Could you trust your source to actually initiate a recall? Are you certain they would disclose where a product came from if there was an issue?

As far as Chinese sources or U.S. sources for e-juice ingredients, why would you trust an unknown "small Chinese source" over a reputable source, or get excited to get your hands on some of this "Chinese Goodness" without knowing anything about what's in it or where it originated? Some of the Chinese manufactures are large reliable operations suppying several point of sale vendors. Secret sources scare me.

Just be careful about falling in line with hype and enthusiasm over a new product line. Know as much as you can about the stuff you eat, drink, or inhale.

Rocky
Really. Even the best are faced with recalls.

My 1995 Toyota Tercel had a recall, because a screw in the radio antenna could come loose and cause static on the AM band....

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