Bendel

What is the difference? Is one better than the other? Is one more safe?
Just a few questions I would really like to know about... thanks!

Dhileas

PG = Propylene Glycol
VG = Vegetable Glycerin

VG is basically an alternative to PG, in case you have a strange allergy to PG, but is slightly sweeter and more viscous. It also produces thicker clouds of vapor. PG is generally the standard base for juice. Both are basically used to dilute the nicotine and act as a base for the nicotine and the flavoring.

Bendel

Thanks, now I can vape in peace

Flashwitt

Vape in peace- but keep your eyes open! There's other stuff out there besides PG and VG, and MOST companies will tell you what's in their juice. You're often offered a choice of pg, vg, or the distributor's mix- which is anywhere from 50%-50% to 80%pg-20%vg. (Also not a bad thing, if you aren't sensitive to one or the other.)

You'll also find juices with something called PEG, which I believe is Poly-Ethylene Glycol. I also believe the safety of that stuff is still a little up in the air. You'll also find juices that use alcohol for throat-hit, Triacetin for sweetness, and other such stuff. The very best ways to know what's safe are, 1. do your own research, and 2. Ask about mystery ingredients in your friendly neighborhood vape forum.

Vape On....

Bendel

Thanks Flash, I'll try to keep that in mind. So far though, I'm staying pretty close to Mike and Dee at LeCig. Ive looked around at other places and found a few lower prices but, I wouldrather pay for the trust I have in Mike than get burnt by someone I never heard of! LOL
But I do thankeveryone here for all the great info and help!

Steampunk

PEG produces DEG, among other things. DEG is a no-no. Might as well just start smoking again. And also one company was found to have anti-freeze grade PG in their juice, which also produces DEG.

Bendel

Thanks 4 the "heads-up" Steam!

Cullan

Wouldnt smoking antifreeze keep your breath from steaming up in the cold?

Rose

Your eye glasses should stay steam-free also!

Flashwitt

On the up side, PG was originally tested as a safe bactericide/fungicide for use in foods and environments at not much higher % levels than we're vaping. So... as long as you don't leave your carts/cartos sitting around for weeks without an occasional hose-out or replacement, you SHOULD be pretty germ-free!

berger

No. It only lowers the freezing point when mixed with water at an optimal 50% to about -20 deg F or better (cant remember exactly) alone its not much lower then straight water. Might keep it from forming frost though.

Steampunk

I think yours should be all Steamed up...

Shoot. And I told myself I was going to be good. Oh, wait, that WAS good!

Rose

That was a good one!

HiRezL

OK, so who is the culprit here, who should we stay away from?

Bendel

Good question....

berger

according to steam, its this
POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL (PEG) 3350 - ORAL (Miralax) side effects, medical uses, and drug interactions.

we typically use propylene glycol not polyethylene glycol however Dekang does (or did) use it in their juices

40bikes

Steam, I'll give you DEG as an antifreeze and it's being poisonous to humans and animals, but does propylene glycol produce DEG under the conditions that exist during vaping?
A sincere question ,I don't know. If DEG is produced under normal vaping conditions then any flavored juices are out and any commercial juice I know of has SOME PG if only in the flavoring.
The simple fact that PG can be used to produce DEG in a lab or factory doesn't mean vapers are in jeopardy, if vaping doesn't duplicate those conditions used to produce diethylene glycol.

berger

Bikes,
do you think perhaps the gas chromatographic process could have caused this on the original FDA samples?

Dhileas

No, it is chemically impossible for pure Propylene Glycol to produce DEG.

berger

what about PEG?

40bikes

Measurement equipment shouldn't alter the sample being tested or the data is invalid.
I think the Chinese mind set is Try it, they'll buy it. Bottom line is the driving force and until someone gets involved with complaints that they are killing their customer base they don't even think about product safety.
My guess is there wasn't a chemist involved until very late in the process. Wouldn't surprise me to find a scenario of them sending a kid with a hand truck to go get "the blue barrel" and he got the blue barrel with the cooling tower additive that only the plant mechanics should have had access to. Unfortunately(or fortunately) the mix ended up being tested by our feds and just like a can of Bud Light:"Here we go."

Steampunk

I think the one that failed was something about Smoking Anywhere...

I try not to buy foreign made juice, because they are notorious for cost-cutting (spelled anitfreeze...) but I like the Dekang "Desert Ship"/Turkish blend.

Steampunk

Oh, snap!!!!

Other uses for PEG....you'll find out on your first Colonoscopy...

Dhileas

Chemically it's a certainty in one way. If a company is making DEG, one of the co-products of the manufacturing process is PEG. PEG can be made on its own, but there have been numerous reports of DEG poisoning in PEG not co-produced with DEG. So, it's a strong possibility. I'd recommend just going with PG and adding your own alcohol. As long as you use an ethanol alcohol you should be fine (depending on the alcohol). Methanol is the deadly one. If you didn't already know that, I'm amazed you're still alive. :P

Teri

WAIT!! STOP!!!! I'm CONFUSED NOW!!

Are you guys saying that vaping PG juice over the atomizer can result in poisonous DEG or PEG? All my juice ALL OF IT! is from Mike at LeCig. Some is not Vapriot. Can this happen? What would the symptoms be?