MichaelMurder

So while driving to radioshack today i had a thought on a mod that would be really helpfull to alot of vapers. It's a rather small mod and i'm not gonna get into details because i realized something. I've never seen one, nor can i find anything like it. After i apply for my patent and the process is rolling i will post pics.

If anyone has patented their mods or has any info on the process it would be really appreciated.

Rocketman

I processed two patents for devices I developed while on "Company Time".
Fees to file weren't much but performing a "prior art" search through an experienced patent attorney was a pain in the butt.

Then the rebuttals from the patent office itself were absolutely idiotic, and that cost more money. They came up with stupid "prior art" examples and charged money to do it. Took about 18 months to get awarded a joint (with the company) patent on both.
One was really cool, the other was submitted as a lark. If it ever goes into production I will see a penny per device.

Best of luck with your idea. Sorry to sound so down, but it is a long and expensive process now.

Rocket

I could not have done this on my own.

Rocketman

Read some patents (internet) and you will see examples where all the ins and outs are covered.
Claims for a vaping device could read:
Claim 1; a device to be held in the hand, or my other means, to provide the individual Nicotine through vapor delivery using electricity, or other source of energy such as solar, thermal or chemical reaction. (can't use ultrasonic because that is taken)
Claim 2; a device comprised of one or more components which may include a source of energy, a quantity of nicotine, a method of delivering the nicotine to the individual in the form of a vapor, liquid, or solid form, or some other form.
Claim 3; a device comprised of one or more components to deliver a chemical substance with similar physiological effects to nicotine, but not actually containing nicotine.

and on and on,

But, maybe you will be lucky and get a patent office representative that fully understands vaping devices and won't consider it similar to a washing machine.

R

Hachiroku

I'm already working on a patent for one that plugs into the ciggy lighter...

bigslick83

you might not want to go with one of those "WE PATENT YOUR INVENTIONS" companies. I sent them in an idea one time and received a report back and numerous calls saying how great my idea was and that it would only take a few hundred bucks to get the patent search going. (Im a manager for a telemarketing call floor, they all sounded like telemarketers) I was a little skeptical that it was that easy, so I sent them another invention that was total crap and useless from a friends address under his name and they gave him the same exact response. Then I found out after the patent search which winds up being 2-3 times more than they claim, only 2% of all people who paid the $2k or so to get the actual patents were collecting royalties. (they actually had to disclaim that in the fine print) Needless to say, I didn't give them any money, and the alarmshock never came to be.

I did hear that it is alot easier if you have a working prototype when trying to patent an invention. Something about it is much harder to patent an idea, and reserve the exclusive rights to it.

MichaelMurder

Yeah i kinda think those things are scams for the most part myself. I'm actually gonna try and find a machine shop to make me a working piece so that's good to know that it helps the process along.

JohnnyJames

Well I would call it a waste of time and money. I would also venture to guess your idea has been tried and discussed on the major forums, it's just buried somewhere. Take the venerable original e-cig patent by Ruyan, only once was it enforced (this can be very, very expensive) and then the offender had only to make a very minor change. Joye, Janty, SLB don't bother to patent, nor do they do patent searches before releasing a new product. The Chinese have no respect for patents anyway.

Know anything about Gibson Les Paul guitars? I got a few $6000 ones I'm trying to off.

Gibson Custom Limited Edition Les Paul Custom Silver Burst Electric Guitar Free Shipping

You need to make your product, then put it in the hands of experienced vapers for some serious beta testing, not the usual Vid Review clique guys either. You'll probably need to make some changes after it's been used for a while, like Rocket's clicky switch conversion needed some modification after extended use.

Rocketman

Yup, and he's not done yet.
I could imagine a patent application each time I changed my mind.
The Trailer Park would become the Taj Mahal.
The absolute worst part (other than the expense) was working with the
patent office itself.



Get a shop to make a few, select some knowledgable, experienced vapers to evaluate,
with everyone bound by a "Non-Disclosure Agreement". If results are positive, risk mass production, release your evaluators from the agreement, publish the reviews, flood the market, scoop up the money, and smile when an overseas shop undercuts your margins. Too late, Grand Cayman here I come.
Long before your patent "Application" has been accepted.

Rocket

MichaelMurder

So basically your saying don't bother patenting it just make it, test it, produce it, and liquidate when someone else tries to patent it?

Rocketman

Non-disclosure agreement, read up on it.
This is the developmental approach industry takes with intellectual property prior to making the determination to attempt obtaining a patent.

The shop you have build a prototype, a reviewer you enlist, should all be bound by this type of legally binding agreement. Keep it out of the "public domain" until you are ready to go public.

MichaelMurder

I understood the Non-disclosure part. I thought you were suggesting just making it and producing it w/o patent due to the inevitable slave labor undercutting.

Rocketman

That too

Just sell as many as you can before that happens.

And it will happen.

People will buy the cheaper model.

Protect your idea until you are ready.

And THEY won't be able to patent it, after you made yor money, no one can,

IT WILL BE IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

MichaelMurder

I gotcha so provided an idea is not "Public Domain" I can reserve all rights. Patents aren't global are they?

Rocketman

Now it's sounds like you are asking for legal advice

I'm going to paraphrase something I told someone about 100% Nicotine
(Rocket humor about to follow)
If you have to come to an internet forum to get legal advice you have come to the wrong place.

I know this idea is just burning a hole in your pocket.
(sorry, just had to do it)

The U.S. has reciprocal agreements in place with several countries regarding patent rights, but not all. And yes there is an "International Approach". Ask Apple Computer, Nintendo, all the others why they can't stop the clones.


As far as patents, your first exercise (and there WILL BE A TEST)

Look up Dr. Gordon Gould and the Laser patent fight.
Good reading for the Physicist or the Lawyer in you.

R

MichaelMurder

Thanks Rocket. That is actually a rather informing read. I hope all patenting isn't like that. Lol

JohnnyJames

Unless you have a totally, radical new design there's nothing to patent anyway. Have you designed a new way to atomize the liquids that doesn't rely on a coil or strand of nichrome wire? A way to use the liquid that doesn't rely on a reservoir and a wicking filler of some sort?

Why would you have to liquidate? A patent after the fact would have no effect on you if you had a product on the market.

Rocketman

Tell that to Dr. Gould.
Have hands on experience in that fight.


Actually tell it to Gould's Estate

Hachiroku

I'll volunteer for testing. If it lasts more than a week with me, it will last someone else a year or two...

Rocketman

And we all missed the main point to this entire thread.
Why in the heck where you driving to Radio Shack for?
Radio Shack? Geeeez.
Rocket

Hachiroku

Yeah, I caught that myself. Even if they HAVE what he wants, it's three times more expensive!

MichaelMurder

Cant help it i'm impulsive they have LED's switches boxes boards all the fun project stuff. It's less than a block away. They just have none of the power options i want i went in there looking for a 120v - 5v wall adapter and couldn't even get one. I'm a very bored stay at home dad at the moment and need to keep myself busy while wifes at work. BTW wife works nights or i'd be playing with my daughter. Soooooooo.. Yeah I know Radio shack is just close. I've got enough crap to keep myself busy for a while now though.