CountryCarolyn

WOW!! WOW!!! WOW!!


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...ne-liquid.html

CountryCarolyn

Well some are questioning if it is box elder. This blog is from one of the ecf forum moderators!!

http://angusatat.com/archives/313



**edit

Then I found this, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...strong-11.html

Hmmmmmmmm!!!

berger

So you think the seller was box elder then?..then the question is where did they get it from? all they say is a US Pharma Supply?..
good ebay link for the nic test kit..

mrwizard

The error could not lie with the originating lab.
Pure nicotine cannot be 200% pure.

Any error in strength of the vendor's final product would be the result of incompetent measuring and mixing on the vendor's part.
When the product is an extremely toxic poison for human consumption that incompetence becomes criminal in my book.

This kind of thing will bring the hammer down hard on this whole industry.
I suspect we're going to see government involvement a lot sooner than later now that this has happened.

berger

So there no chance the supplier could have ordered 100mg juice and got sent 250mg juice by mistake then? (or something similar)..I know it doesn't make sense from a cost stand point but I know the producer will pre-cut the stuff for you as I did ask that before...

Rocketman

That points to an active recall requirement. One thing I have asked of each of the unflavored suppliers is HOW a recall would be implemented. Do they utilize sales data, contact information, or just advertise in a forum? If a batch did not come out just right a "100% money back" offer in a forum just won't cut it.

Here's what to watch out for:

1) reports that a particular vendor's unflavored seems so much stronger.
"hits twice as hard as that cheap xxxxx juice I had been buying"
2) reports from a "a friend that works in a lab" using a home EPT that a vendor mixed a strength "right on the money" or "is twice as high as labeled". The "friend that works in a lab" is about as reliable as what?
3) hype. Watch out for hype. If it's too good to be true, well enough said.

If there is a batch of "mistake Juice" out there, the vendor has a responsibility to directly notify (as his cost) all recipients of that batch. That responsibility is propagated from vendor to vendor to the end purchaser. Failure to do so would be considered criminal endangerment. Anyone ever get an automotive recall in the mail as the registered owner of a recalled vehicle?

Rocketman

Yes it is possible. The extraction lab is limited by science to 1005 mg/ml. The first line mixing facility cuts this to lower quantities. A MIXTAKE in dilution, mislabeling, or a calculation error could cause a strength error of this alleged error. If this 100mg/ml error juice make it to a smaller vendor and was used to cut juice to 24mg/ml, 36mg/ml, or 48mg/ml then the error spreads.

Days after the bad 100mg/ml ships, if it exists, super high 48mg/ml could hits the streets that was really over 100mg/ml. Even a simple mislabeled bottle could net you a surprise bottle of 100mg/ml when you thought yu were getting 24mg/ml.



Rocket Tip: If it really hits that much harder than what you have been buying, it probably is. BTW, isn't that what the cigarette industry was accused of to get people hooks on a particular brand? Adding extra nicotine, and 'other' enhancements?

mrwizard

Highly unlikely due to the cost, yes.
None of the big chem supply houses I've found offer that, but if the supplier is a chinese factory, then yes, they will sell pre-cut unflavored.
So I stand corrected.

Rocketman

Since a particular vendor's business name was mentioned I would expect that vendor to come forward with a public statement (public in a forum? Ha!) to dispel this as rumor-mongering, or issue a point to point recall and apology. Their name is "DIRT" until this is cleared up.

CC, keep us up to date on this.
Our own "Little Miss FDA".

Sorry, just had to

EDIT: Investigate the reliability of the source of the 100mg/ml tested at 245mg/ml statement.
Liability may shift


Here's a valuable quote from our RolyPoly friend:
You should not be doing this in any case (concentrated nic juice) unless you have some background knowledge, and know how to work safely with poisons. When the vendor is obviously incompetent, you are in real danger unless you know how to work safely and test the materials.

berger

Yea..I realize its very improbable cause the cost involved but figured I just throw it out a possibility..
Rocky is dead right ..there absolutely needs to be traceability and batch numbering and recall ability ...kinda scary when you think about it

Rocketman

Story time, again:

One of the materials used in the Old Rocket Factory was a 2 part RTV Silicone resin.
A new fangled auto-mix facility was designed and built to process 100 to 500 pound batches of the this stuff and mix it with other 'secret' ingredients. Manual mixing was time consuming and prone to errors. Of course each batch was extensively tested, as was the physical properties of the cured final product. Automated mixing was deemed to solve all of this. Well, it took about a year to qualify the mixing facility, a two story 20,000 square foot building with remote controlled pumps, mass flow meters, PLC terminals, etc. When the mix ratios kept coming out wrong, my metrologists were blamed. The flow meters must be wrong, right? Nope.

Someone catalog shopping bought pumps that would cavitate and flow would stall when pumping this thick resin that was much more viscous that VG (Imagine VG at zero C ). The vapor bubbles in the line caused the errors. The facility was shut down, pumps and plumbing redesigned, and brought back on line about a year late.

Moral of this story: Turn your back on automation and who's got your back?

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

Hou998

This will be mandatory when regulations take effect..

Rocketman

But sending out recall letters is just gonna drive up the cost of our nic juice.

Shekinahsgroom

Is there an ECHO in here??

Go over to Tru's site and you'll see the same thread and comments!

Rocketman

There may be an echo.

But where the truth?

Shekinahsgroom

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,365.0.html

Rocketman

Still don't SEE THE TRUTH.
It's enough of an alarm to stop using that brand until this is resolved, but noobs mixing juice is not truth to me. Fanboys of another vendor jumping a moving train is not proof to me. And that's not the ONLY vendor where people have said "higher than any of my Chinese shit, they must have been cheating me".


I agree that if you notice anything strange about your NIC juice, stop vaping it.
If you just don't "feel" right after vaping a product, stop vaping it.
If you hear rumors about a problem, stop vaping it.

I think you can find this comment in my Point Of View thread:
I stay well ahead with my Juice. Put each new batch into cold storage and pull it out

FIFO. If no one has died in about 6 months, I pull it out and use it

RY4

All this is scary..... especially since I got pretty darn sick from getting too much nic by my own doing in over vaping. I believe you did mention it in your Point of View thread and you are exactly right.

RY4

Found it in General Discussion and bumped it up.

Here's the link:

Rockets Point of View

mrwizard

Excellent advice, and I do agree that internet rumors do not equal fact/truth, but when dealing with something so potentially life-threatening it's wise to take the most cautious path.
I won't go into questioning motives, and I'm not from Missouri , but until I get a sample and test it myself I have to take anything I read with a grain of salt.

Anyone doing DIY, and especially those buying high content nicjuice should have the means to test it before use.
To that end, I've decided to add a Nicotine test kit to the site.
I've ordered some more Bromthymol Blue and Sulfuric acid to repackage in kit form.
The test kit on Ebay is based on Dvap's simplified Nicotine titration method for testing 1ml samples of ejuice to within a 10% error margin.
That seems sufficient and cost effective enough for any DIYer to avoid a fatal error by their nicjuice vendor.

If anyone (like Rocket), is interested in a more exact test kit, let me know and I'll get you the proper labgear with my next order at cost plus shipping.

tek

First i am interested, and second, my order from box elder from the last sale at gorumet vapor, has been fine, but labeled at 48 so its excluded.

but i may buy a kit or two for the testing of what i make total level lol...

CountryCarolyn

Not so much tek, from the only woman that showed results she claimed that 16mg was also double strength.

Mr Wiz I totally agree this kind of stuff is what is going to get the hammer thrown down. Also I love the fact that you are going to add the test kits to your site. MAJOR KUDOS!!

I am like you Rocket, I hear the complaints, but is it hype? I notice that only 1 person posted results. Several others say they have bought test kits but no one has posted the results except for one of the very first posters. Does anyone else find it odd the op has not hit the post in quite sometime??

Ya know me I will try to find out more tonight, they were discussing it on a new channel and I was having issues with stickam so I only caught bits and pieces of the convo.

Shekinahsgroom going to read on that link now!!

Rocketman

One problem with the "test kit" is "fine control" .

If not performed correctly you can easily get results indicating a High Nic level.

It takes a couple of practice runs to get results that even come close to repeating.

It took me about 3 tries the first time

berger

thats disturbing...and really makes me wonder about the validity of any accusations
The importance of the test being reasonably accurate is paramount to even having one
if is that difficult for repeatability for the average person you can bet there will be many many more of these type incidents

mrwizard

Rocket brings up a good point.
The effect of human error is magnified when working with smaller volumes like in the scaled down kit.
It's not meant to be taken as a pinpoint accurate test, just a ballpark figure to know that you aren't vaping something wildly different than what's on the label.
For more accurate results you would need to invest in more than a graduated cylinder and also run your tests using a larger volume of eliquid and reagents.
Even with the best of gear I still wouldn't put complete confidence in a single result.