VtVapor

Freezing [s]should be safe[/s] but can lead to separation(EDIT: As long as you shake it really well) (I've noticed this particularly with strong menthols and vg based liquids).

As far as growing science experiments in your e-liquid, I agree whole-heartedly with rocket - alcohol is your friend for cleaning/prep (but would choose a different type... one that would be fit for consumption and wouldn't impart any "off" tastes or odors). Also, he is right on about storage - recommended temp is ~0-5 degrees, sealed container, away from light.

~~Adam

Rocketman

Question for you chemists/med students out there:

What would the estimated BAC be for a regular sized adult vaping about 100 cartridges per hour of 50/50 everclear/VG Juice (whatever NIC strength).
If a 901 cartridge holds about 0.2ml of juice, or about 0.1ml of alcohol (less if less than 200 proof alcohol is used) and the average male has about 5 liters of blood, and elimination is considered linear, how long after vaping 100 cartridges would the BAC be less than "Legally Drunk"? Would a continuous rate of 30 cartridges an hour be OK for a "designated driver"?
Has anyone tried "NyQuil"?
Rocket

I'm just guessing here but I doubt you will ever get enough alcohol by vaping to be of any concern, unless you have a medical sensitivity to ethanol. I wonder if it would show up immediately after vaping in a breathalyzer? If so, probably gone in a minute or two. Anyone want to test this?

VtVapor

Will a law student do?

Sadly (because I wouldn't mind vaping a bourbon during evidence class this fall), I can't imagine being able to vape enough alcohol to even get a buzz.

This is easier in reverse: a common carrier (bus driver, etc) is limited to a .01%bac.

For a 90lb female, thats ~ 7ml of alcohol in an hour or 15ml of your 1/2 everclear mix (better hope it isn't 35mg/ml or the nic alone may kill her)

Over 3 hours, she would have to vape an entire 35ml bottle of the stuff to go over the .01 limit.

Also, since a "standard drink" is considered 17.7ml of ethanol, it is equivalent to 186 of these 50/50 carts. That's a lot of carts.

. . . This isn't taking into account the possibility that inhaled vapor is a less/more efficient transport medium than liquid taken orally . . .

Long story short & for those "tl;dr": I wouldn't worry 'bout the police.

godling

Makes me want to go buy one of those in-home Breathalyzers sold to bust your kids with. I don't think they are accurate enough for legal stuff, but it would give a pretty good idea how vaped alcohol might affect your body.

Einstein

When you are cleaning your glassware, be professional about it and use acetone. Wash and rinse your glass, then spray/rinse it with acetone ... it will absorb any excess water and vape away leaving clean and spotless glassware. Of course, alcohol will work as well, but unless you are using undenatured alcohol, you WILL be leaving behind the denaturing additives of standard denatured alcohol (mostly via methanol, but there are other denaturing processes which will leave harmful residues behind). And, acetone is soooo much cheaper than Everclear to clean glassware with .... just don't be wearing a Swatch when you do it ... acetone will also dissolve plasitcs. Take it from someone who came back from chem lab and ripped all the hair off his wrist trying to take his watch off after washing dishes in lab .... not fun, but placed in a beaker of acetone the watch did dissolve after a week leaving only my lost hair, battery, and metal mechanism parts intact.

Rocketman

Ok,
Was asked about vaping alcohol, think we have an answer.
You can always take a couple of jello shots to "mask" any alcohol from vaping e-juice.

Acetone or Everclear?
after you are done washing all your utensils you can 'drink' the everclear , can't do that with acetone. Another clear liquid on the kitchen counter while the home chemist is mixing e-juice. I think I'll change from the IPA to ethanol. Even Bacardi 151 is a fair disinfectant. In the 1/2 gallon size it's not that expensive and has other uses as well.
"It's just for cleaning the e-cig utensils, honey"
Anyone autoclave an atomizer yet?
or Boiling your e-juice to make your own zero nic juice.

Rocket,
(I hope all of you know - they are watching us)

Einstein

Boiling point of Nicotene is 477F. Water is 212F. Alcohols and alcohol based flavors substantially less. So, if you want a Nic free e-liquid, then buy it ... your only other option is to actualy set up a distillation rig (still) and boil off everything BUT the nicotene and then smoke what's in the end chamber. Of course, let's hope the heating and distillation process didn't absurd the flavors .... either way, you either buy 0-nic e-juice or nic'd e-juice and have to set up a home still to remove the nic (plus cost of the still).

As for being able to 'drink' the Everclear after using it to clean your gear .... I'd rather drink the acetone. Honestly, would you drink out of the toilet right after you took a wiz? Before flushing? Just think about every toxin and left over debris that you would be cleaing off with Everclear and THEN drinking?. Might as well go back to analog cigs and 'mat shots'. Besides, at $40 a gallon for Everclear vs. $1 a quart for denatured alcohol ($36 savings) .... they will both do the same job .... alcohol absorbs water (any teen that's refilled their parents liquor bottle with water to get the lvl back up will know). Alcohol and water molecules can intertwine with each other .... ex. drink 3 shots of whiskey and have to add 5 shots of water to return the bottle to the level it was before you stole your parent's whiskey (and noticed the level line they marked on the side of the bottle). Acetone just absorbs MORE water, and both will evaporate at room temperature taking the absorbed water away with them. It's not like acetone is expensive either, comparable to denatured alcohol ... it also has a lower vapor point (means it evaporates and takes the water off your glassware faster, so no watermarks).

godling

Then why all the concern about storing your eJuice in a sealed container, in the fridge, out of direct sunlight? It was my understanding that the Nicotine would "evaporate" away, leaving an unfulfilling juice behind.

Rocketman

Ok sorry folks,
guess the Rocket's humor is a little dry here (remember the 2400 joke)

Don't boil your e-juice to make zero NIC. Don't boil your juice to sanitize it, it will turn itself into zero NIC. (oh and you med students out there) don't autoclave your atty.
Godling: There IS a concern about ingredients in your juice evaporating, keep it cool and in the dark. And, the hygroscopic nature of VG will suck water out of the air and dilute your juice a little (unless water was used to dilute it in the first place).

Don't drink your cleaning fluids, that was a joke. I would rather drink the 151 than the acetone though.

Don't drink out of the toilet.

OK, with respect to Household Laboratories and DIY e-juice mixing. My LAB equipment is :a few 4 oz bottles of VG, an 8oz bottle of PG, a few 1 dram bottles of Loranns, a bottle of clear Vanilla extract, a bottle of peppermint extract (non-oil), one or two bottles of 36mg/ml juice, a few empty bottles (that I have disinfected) a teeny weeny itsy bitsy funnel, a 50ml graduate, an eye dropper, some paper towels, and latex gloves (I am not sensitive to latex BTW).
My procedure is to clear a spot on the kitchen table, wipe down the area, lay out some paper towels, set up the mixing lab and dilute the 36mg juice. Oh, and like always, I forget the gloves, darn.
Disinfecting the "Glassware", funnel, and juice bottles, includes wiping the necks of all the supply bottles with IPA (soon to be 151) and letting it dry should remove or kill all bio-hazardous materials and cabinet dust. Let it dry and the residue from IPA should be less than 50 micrograms per square meter. The residue from the Bacardi should be about the same. Acetone will be less than 10 ug/sq M.
Clean stuff with soap and hot water first and follow with a solvent cleaning (your choice) be careful no matter what solvent you use. Ladies: don't get the acetone on your plastic nails. Guys: Clean up after yourselves, that is not your kitchen.

CAUTION: MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF VOLATILE LIQUIDS OPEN AT ANY ONE TIME.
DO NOT USE VOLATILE LIQUIDS IN A CONFINED SPACE. DO NOT USE NEAR FIRE OR FLAME. DURING THE WINTER REMEMBER THE CENTRAL AIR SYSTEM WILL SUCK UP VAPORS AND MOVE THEM TO THE HEATER, NOT GOOD.
STOP AND CLEAN AS YOU GO IF YOU SPILL SOMETHING.
DO NOT DISCARD CLEANING RAGS USED TO MOP UP VOLATILE LIQUIDS - TAKE THEM OUTSIDE TO EVAPORATE FIRST. SEGREGATE MATERIALS THAT YOU ARE GOING TO PUT IN YOUR E-JUICE FROM THE CLEANING SUPPLIES. CONSIDER PURCHASING A LAMINAR FLOW BENCH IF YOU WILL BE WORKING WITH A LOT OF VOLATILE LIQUIDS (bet everyone has one of these in there house).
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING - DON'T DO IT

Working in a Laboratory is different than working at home. You spill something in a LAB and you get a bad grade. You spill something at home and the Wife will bring the Wrath of Khan down upon you. Or, maybe you will just blow the house to smithereens.
Sorry if anyone took some of my vague humor to heart.
My suggestion (no joke) is don't let anybody bring acetone into your house. Also know as Dimethylformaldehyde, scary?

Einstein: try not to melt any more watches.
(and now I know why my BOOZE kept getting weaker and weaker before the kids left home)
Nice article on cleaning liquids here:
http://www.aqmd.gov/rules/doc/r1171/...c_20030801.pdf


My offer to sell anyone my secret formula for 50/50 PG/VG Tasteless, Zero NIC juice still stands (and I didn't boil NIC juice to get it).

Ever wonder where perfumed toilet water came from?

Good luck to everyone,

The Rocket
(man, I hope they aren't watching)

godling

Dang Rocket!

Now I gotta re-think my method ... I usually grab my empty-ish dropper bottle, pry off the top, squeeze in some 36mg flavorless, some VG, a dab or two of LorAnns and shove the top back on. I've found that if I measure and record the ingredients as I mix, it's easier to re-create a good-tasting flavor later ... assuming I can find the little post-it note I wrote down the drop-counts on.

How important is it to sanitizing everything? Won't the nicotine keep stuff from growing in the eJuice? I'm not against buying a bottle of 151 ... just curious.

Rocketman

Black leaf 40 would

Disclaimer:
The Rocket is not advocating the use of Black Leaf 40, or related products for cleaning glassware, mixing with e-cig juice, or keeping it in the fridge with products intended for human consumption. The 40 in the name is 40% not 40mg/ml. Don't sniff it either.

Biological and chemical contaminants need to be considered for any product you may come in contact with. Every so often, clean things up. An old army adage was "a clean xxxxx is a happy xxxxx".
Take a really close look at your e-cig cartridge. Not the filler, that's disgusting, the cartridge itself. Where has it been? Does it pick up lint from your pants pocket? Do you blow the dirt off when you drop it? When was the last time it was cleaned? And you want me to put 'that' in my mouth? (that's what she said).


The Rocket,
yea right

Einstein

The main reason behind storing your e-juice in the fridge are the two major reasons which lead to organic decomposition. Temperature and Energy. There was a reason that milk used to be sold in paperboard cartons ... sunlight provides enough energy to decay most of the vitamins and amino acids. Of course, the newer semi-opaque gallon jugs are specifically designed to help reduce UV pass-thru from sunlight and reduce degradation. Borden's yellow jugs block 100% (some say preserving the flavor of the milk so it doesn't degrade nutrients in the store or on the way home).

However, the main reason to store your e-juice in the fridge is that a) it's usually at a lower temperature than most of the volatile aromatics, so they won't boil or sublime off reducing flavor, and b) dark is good. Dark keeps harmful UV rays (except when you open the fridge (yes, even household lighting and the frigdge light will emit UV light as part of their broad spectrum emissions) from also attacking and degrading your volatile flavors in your e-juice.

Ever wonder why hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) comes in a brown bottle? UV rays will degrade it into H20 over time. Same with the aromatic organic flavorings in e-juice ... they are designed to be vaped to obtain the best flavor, but will decay into lower organic chains over time without the same flavor. So, cool and dark are best to preserve any organic flavors ... cooler than they vape at or start to sublime out of solution. Everyone has a fridge, so it becomes the most logical storage solution to keep volatile organics at their 'freshest'.

As far as actually trying to distill your nic fluid to get 0-nic fluid ... why would you? I merely pointed out it's possible, not practical. You would leave all the nicotene behind in your boiling vessel, and vape off all of your flavorings leaving you with degraded organics that would probably taste like a burnt shoe if you tried to vape it. You want a gazillion parts of cheap 0-nic e-liquid? Go buy a gallon of smoke machine liquid (propylene glycol) and then go buy the flavoring additives you want.

Now, if someone can turn me on to a good nic-laced beer .... mmmmm.

Rocketman

Sorry, but that's just the what our government wants us to think. The light does not go out when you close the fridge. You are still irradiating your food with UV rays. It's a conspiracy. If I took my stash of 48mg/ml PG unflavored ( only NIC and PG in it as far as I know) and let it sit out in the open (in a dark place of course) would the strength increase because the PG boils at a lower temperature. Storing higher strength nicotine solution as 'stash' takes up less space in the fridge, and that is starting to be a little problem. Since I can't get any higher strength stuff, (unless someone out there has access to stronger stuff in their lab and would be willing to share) this could be a way to store in a condensed form and then mix down a months supply when I needed it. I just wonder what is really in the bottles of VG, PG and Loranns I buy at Hobby Lobby in the clear bottles. They have been sitting under the fluorescent lights at room temperature for who knows how long. I guess they are just to cheap to use brown bottles (which jou can buy at any scientific supply house) and a refrigerator. The gallon of smoke juice has been discussed here before and I don't THINK it was determined to be safe. We usually shy away from commercial grade (or farm grade) products.
Another question: The absolute prettiest dropper bottles are the cobalt blue, boston round. Not the cheapest, but yuo are going to disinfect and reuse anyway. Would the blue let in more UV than the brown bottle which is a little cheaper? In addition to flavor, having enough stash to last though the pending economic meltdown, COST is a concern of most of us. We would like to save money over what we were spending an analogs. Maybe we should now refer to the e-cig as digitals. OK back on track again.
What is the deal with VG. There is Vegetable Glycerin, Glycerol, synthetic glycerin (the DOW stuff) that is supposedly the same chemical. The 99.9% USP Glycerin from Walmart made me want to puke when I used it to mix down my 36. The ONLY e-juice I ever tossed out. Others have reported the same. Vegetable Glycerin don't do that.
Glycerin molecules is glycerin molecules, right? why does it seem to matter what process they came from?

Rocket
(I just checked again, and I swear, the light seems to be on in my fridge, if I took the bulb out, they would know. They are watching us, I just feel it)

esmokelady

I have a friend who complains her bottles get sticky and gunky, her atomizers cloggy and her cartridges brown. I told her she's responsible for keeping her stuff clean and with fresh cartridges now and then! The maid is not going to do it! HaHa!

Rocketman

Yes, keep your stuff clean,
a clean xxxxx is a happy xxxxx

R

esmokelady

Now if everyone would just wash their hands! Ha!

VapaVamp

But I do my mixing in "Tupperware." Whatever shall I use to properly clean IT? (If I use my hubby's 151, he will know....He is always watching!)

nebraskapuffer

I've been searching for that "perfect throat hit" and I've finally got something but.....when I exhale there is no vapor. Has anyone experianced anything like this? I'd gotten hold of unflavored 48mg juice and cut it in half with PG then added PG based cherry flavoring from the grocery store here in town. I'm ending up with about 18mg. The taste is really nice and the throat hit is great but no vapor. When I don't inhale there is plenty of vapor but as soon as I bring it in my lungs and exhale.....nothing. Any ideas?

godling

Maybe you found the ideal mix for maximum absorption? That could be cool ... could be scary too.

I've had killer throat hit with no vapor too, but this has only happened on a couple random occasions and I have no idea what caused it.

nebraskapuffer

My significant other says it's good because it will be easier to hide in public if needed but I still like seeing something come out when I exhale but if I have to make a choice I'll take the throat hit. May I ask why it could be scary? Just curious. Thanks godling!

godling

Imagine if your lungs absorbed all of the tar in a cigarette, instead of putting out clouds of smoke. e-Cigarettes are still largely unknown, and absorbing large amounts of unknown is kinda scary.

Rocketman

(secret whistle)
I agree, might be wasting some juice but I like to see the vapor, an additional link to the psychological aspect of the addiction. No vapor? Don't happen to me.
I am also wondering about 'throat hit'. Having a volume of smoke you can feel lets you know right off you are getting something out of this rather than waiting to see if you have inhaled enough NIC to stop for a few breaths. But throat hit may be an indication that you are irritating your throat, bronchial passages, sinuses, and heaven forbid your 'vocal cords'. You know, the 'Shirley Temple' effect. At least think about it, asking for the best 'throat hit' just may be 'asking for it'.

nebraskapuffer

Yeah you are 100% correct (as usual) Rocket about the psychological aspect. godling give me a few things to think about too. I got an idea this weekend and I ordered some VG from Rob at liquidxpress.com. I cannot believe it but I ordered at nearly midnight Friday and when I got home today it was here! 1/2 way accross the country, kinda amazing I think. From now on Rob from LE will be getting more of my money. Anyway, I added some of this VG and now I got vapor. I lost some of the throat hit but I guess I take what I can get. Anyway I truly appreciate you guy's input. Who knows, maybe this VG will help with this Shirly Temple issue I'm dealing with now.

esmokelady

Hey everybody! I had to share my joy!
I had several bottles of "chocolate" 18 mg nicotine - with little or no flavor.
So . . .
I added Lorann's Mint Chocolate Chip flavor and BANG! It works! It tastes fab!
I also made a bit of English Toffee.
I just love my new hobby. Thanks to those of you who were straight with me and shared the "BIG SECRET" of how to add a few drops of candy flavoring to low or no flavor e-juice.
MUAH!

Rocketman

Ma'am, Glad you are having a good time. There are probably 1.2 kazillion combinations of flavors you could try, I know because I haven't tried them all, yet. Thanks for the pointer on the Mint Chocolate Chip, I too have have dull Chocolate. The English Toffee didn't impress me though, had to add a little fruit flavor to tang it up a little. My local Hobby Lobby has not restocked yet so I ordered straight from the lorannoils site. Had to buy a fair amount to beat the local price. Have fun, be safe. In home "mixing Parties" would be a good reason to follow up with your customers.
The Rocket
(he's still watching)