Breakfree

Are ya tryin to get eLiquid from China?

You can get it from a safer source. Try the EcoPure eLiquid here:

intellicig-USA.com Buy Intellicig EVO Electronic Cigarette by intellicig, The intelligent e-smoking e-cig alternative.

Stehle

Son reloads the M203's with binary powder and uses Winchester primer caps. Can take out a vehicle full of analogs with one shell. 'nuff said

Stehle

No, Rocket had it right. Thanks for the liquid tip though!

Large hardware shipment got mixed with very small (minuscule) liquid shipment.

Outcome so far: Partial hardware shipment*


(*Many of the 084 PCC's came through Great packaging and oh so beautiful! Pics coming soon!)

Lazarus

Sounds like a plan...thanks for the tip.

renderwerks

Yesterday, an ad hoc group of PV users got together, gave themself a name, and hired an attorney whom filed an Amicus brief (friend of the court) in the FDA vs SE/nJoy case. This is a statement presented in the case from an interested or affected organization in hopes of influencing the decision:

Brief Part 1
Brief Part 2
Brief Part 3

Let's all hope Judge Leon takes it under consideration.

Rocketman

Haven't read the brief yet but I hope that doesn't give ASH an opportunity to refile also.

Never Mind
Guess the judge accepted ASH's amicus brief anyway, hadn't read that before.

Hope the judges' order gets signed and posted
(anybody got a crossed finger emoticon)
The Rocket

Rocketman

OK, put on your thinking caps.
What would be the absolutely stupidest thing you would expect in the news about e-cigs?
Now nobody tell Adam about this cause it might hurt his feelings.

What do you get when 3 lawyers are sitting about with nothing better to do?
How about a "Class Action Lawsuit" for e-cig users that have been lied to about how safe these things are?
*************************************
E-cigarette Class Action Lawsuit

Thousands of people - even children - use e-cigarettes in the mistaken belief that these devices pose less risk than traditional cigarettes. In reality, they may be exposing themselves to dangerous, cancer causing chemicals. Our e-cigarette lawyers are committed to making sure the marketers of these products pay for their deceptive claims. We are offering free case evaluations to anyone interested in joining an e-cigarette class action lawsuit.

If you or someone you love purchased e-cigarettes, you have valuable legal rights. Please fill out our online form, or call 1-800-xxx-xxxx
************************************
And another site I found. This is why the tobacco industry is in the FDA's pockets or versus vissus.

https://dissolvables.tobaccopleasure...ity/Login.aspx
The FDA will endorse this one for sure, but not e-cigs? go figure.
Reynolds moves to be on top when smoke clears
***********************************
and how about marketing to kids:
MELTDOWN
************************************
Well, maybe big tobacco ain't as happy with the FDA as they thought they would be:
R.J. Reynolds, Lorillard sue US government to block marketing rules in new tobacco law -- Courant.com
**************************************


Brother Rocket

ummmmmmmmmm poof, ummmmmmmmm poof

Attached Thumbnails

Breakfree

Well that "class action suit" may be a way to drum up biz by the lawyers or it may be instigated by the fda pulling strings in the background.

You know what Shakespeare said, "First, kill all the lawyers".



http://www.electroniccigsandcigarillos.webs.com/

Rocketman

Guess we will be seeing Television commercials just like the Vioxx ones in the near future.

How about a class action suit against Mother Nature (within the jurisdiction of the EPA, right?) for damaging our health by drinking a component found in antifreeze (water).
R

VtVapor

Damn. My feelings are hurt... Why didn't I think of this???

~~Adam

powerpuff

No way! My VirtuSmoke is an e-cigarette.
If you smoke one pack a day you are spending at least $120 a month. VirtuSmoking you will spend $1.40 per cartridge “equivalent pack”, $42 per month, a $78 savings, more than $900 a year.
FDA says that e-cigs are bad, I question for whom? Nothing before was good enough, now I use VirtuSmoke and have no cravings.

mayte

I've spent time clerking for two attorneys in a law firm in addition to playing gopher, bringing coffee and filing documents.. Despite my bosses' hopes as well as a sitting judge's desire for me to continue in law b/c I excelled in the courtroom as well as outside the courtroom, I just couldn't do it. The courts, although nobody will admit it, are fixed from jump. If one doesn't have the money to hire an adequate and competent attorney, they go down in the fight with someone with money who can hire the best attorney in the area or the best team of attorneys. until we find a way to level that playing field, the system will remain broken. Of course I know it's the only system we have; however, it is still broken. Domestic cases are the worst, esp those where children are involved. The was my strong suite but it also put me such a depression and mixed emotions going from elation to despair depending on where the children had to go and the why it turned out that way. Corporate law puts me to sleep. LOL! But I digress..

I did read the case files submitted to the court and to be honest, it was impressive. Most people do not like the ACLU getting involved in cases but it would not hurt in this case to have them on board. If anyone with half a brain takes a look at what the FDA is doing out in public in addition to their back-door dealings with ASH, Big Pharma, and Big tobacco, there is no question that these groups are all in contempt of trying to stomp on the civil rights of both smokers and those who choose to use e-cigarettes. This alone should be enough for the judge in the case to pause and to dump the FDA out the door once more because once again the FDA's eyes have gotten too big for their stomach - as one would say here in the back country. It's kind of like they've bitten off a lot more than they can chew.

My hope is that this judge is smart enough, strong enough, and willing to go out on the limb against the FDA and ASH not to mention Big Pharma and Big Tobacco.

I'm crossing my proverbial fingers. I'd cross my real ones but the joint pain would hurt too much.

The complaint is on point on everything the FDA and ASH threw their way. I just hope the ACLU would get involved on the civil rights part of the case b/c it is no doubt this falls within the civil right's realm.

Hope this helps someone else who reads the document and needs to know where the legal-speak went with the brief.

AndewDavid

According to my information electronic cigarette is not harmful for anyone and is specially made to cop with the smoking bans. It has no tobacco so it should not be banned at any public place as it ios not harmful for health

LeCig

This is not my letter to the FDA. I read this on another forum, it is a response to a consumer writing the FDA about their opinions of ecigs. Here is the FDA response letter:

Cheryl,
Your email has been forwarded to the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research (CDER). Please forward all future inquiries regarding electronic cigarettes to "druginfo at fda dot hhs dot gov" (this is their email).


Sincerely,
Steve Nagy


Dear Cheryl:

Your email was forwarded to the Division of Drug Information, in the
FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research.

Thank you for making your opinions and concerns known to the Agency. We
appreciate your thoughts and experiences regarding electronic cigarette,
cigar, and pipe products.

At this time, we are not aware of any data establishing electronic
cigarettes, cigars, or pipes as safe and effective for their intended
uses. Based upon our review of a number of these products, they are
drug/device combinations that require approval by FDA before they may be
legally marketed in the United States.

None of these so-called electronic cigarettes, cigars, and pipes, or
their components has been approved by FDA. Therefore, the marketing of
them in the United States is subject to enforcement action. As a matter
of policy, however, we limit communications about the regulatory status
of specific marketed products to those responsible for them, and we do
not discuss our enforcement actions except with the targets of those
actions.

There may be a perception among some users that electronic cigarettes,
cigars, or pipes are safer alternatives to conventional tobacco
products. There may also be a perception that these products are a safe
and effective means to quit smoking conventional forms of tobacco.
However, FDA is not aware of any scientific data to support those
perceptions. Since these products have not been submitted to the FDA
for evaluation or approval, the agency has no way of knowing, except for
the limited testing it has performed, the levels of nicotine or the
kinds and amounts of other chemicals that the various brands of these
products deliver to the user. The FDA's Division of Pharmaceutical
Analysis analyzed the ingredients in a small sample of cartridges from
two leading brands of electronic cigarettes. In one sample, the FDA's
analyses detected diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that
is toxic to humans, and in several other samples, the FDA analyses
detected carcinogens, including nitrosamines. FDA also found varying
levels of nicotine in cartridges labeled as containing the same level of
nicotine as well as the presence of nicotine in cartridges labeled as
containing no nicotine. These test results indicate that these products
are manufactured under inadequate or non-existent controls.

FDA is concerned that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes may
introduce young people to nicotine use which may lead to an increase in
the use of conventional tobacco products with well-known, adverse,
health consequences. Additionally, it is unclear what health effects
these products could have on users or if misuse or product failure could
lead to nicotine poisoning or other serious adverse health consequences.

Again, we appreciate the time that you have taken to contact us.

Best regards,
Drug Information SH
Division of Drug Information
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research
Food and Drug Administration


This communication is consistent with 21CFR10.85(k) and constitutes an
informal communication that represents our best judgment at this time
but does not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily
represent the formal position of the FDA, and does not bind or otherwise
obligate or commit the agency to the views expressed.

LeCig

Now the reason I posted the letter (which seems to be a canned response) is this comment made within the same thread of that forum:

Correct me if i'm wrong but according to wikipedia DEG is used as a humectant in tobacco,which means the analogs that we used to smoke had DEG in them anyways.Also the US code of Federal Regulations ALLOWS no more than 0.2% of DEG in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.So DEG thats used in antifreeze and is toxic to humans is why the FDA's wants us to believe e-cigs are unsafe to us,but ALLOW'S up to 0.2% DEG in food additives.Does any body else find this outragous.

************************************************** **************
Now for my comment:

If this is true, then why are people letting the FDA even go one step further? The tobacco industry is putting in all sorts of poisons, close to 4000 of them. Yet the FDA isn't forcing BT to sell JUST TOBACCO cigs minus all this garbage in them.

Does anyone else here feel like your being chumped by a bunch of thugs?

Snarkyone

The answer is simple....$$$$ our whole society is so messed up, we place value on things of little value, and no value on the very things we should value above all others.

LeCig

So true Snark ... and what bothers me the most is the Nanny nagging me whilst she is getting paid to abuse us.

Hachiroku

I'm hoping you mean PROPYLENE Glycol, since polyethelyne glycol is a strong laxative!

From an FDA test I saw, you only get DEG when using a PG based liquid; it is not produced in VG based liquids.

LeCig

that comment was from another forum lol

Rocketman

DEG, PG, VG, RG, BeeGee, Gee whiz

OK DEG at 0.2 %. Probably not all that bad, it is sort of cumulative. Stop vaping it when you've had too much.

DEG is closely related to the normal manufacturing process for PG, and synthetic Glycol. Usually not with Vegetable Glycerin processing. Might "accidentally" get into the process if not closely controlled.

Historically, DEG was "illegally" substituted for both PG and VG at much higher concentrations than 0.2%. Why? I'm sure it wasn't because it's cheaper than dirt and hard to detect in either PG or VG.

If the juice you are vaping has any more than a teeny weenie trace of DEG then the process that made it was crap, or somewhere along the line someone cut it with "Industrial Grade" crap. Should not be there, period. PG or VG.

1% (you wouldn't know until it was too late) will cause kidney function to slowly decrease and be IRREVERSIBLE. (THE REASON FOR MAKING THAT KIDNEY DONOR LIST FROM YOUR CLOSEST RELATIVES).

Control. Testing. Traceability. Lot codes (of the original PG or VG lot). Key words for stuff going into your body.
Ever vape a really funky tasting juice?

I buy higher strength juice than I currently vape cause I be cheap. milligrams per dollar is the metric I generally use when shopping. But a side benefit is that I cut WHATEVER is in the juice I buy by at least 50% with either lot coded PG or VG directly from a large reliable source (not the feed store).

Oh and DEG will get both of your kidneys at the same time.
The FDA ain't the smartest knife in the drawer, but they are dead on right when it comes to process control. Somethings just don't belong in our peanut butter, or our e-juice.

Rocket
(penny stack still there)

And the DEG used to wipe down tobacco leaves gets washed off with CHEMICAL PROCESSING later.

mayte

This coming from the agency that let Fen-Fen on the market and didn't retract it until after hundreds of people died from heart attacks b/c of the drug. My biological father's twin sister was almost one of them. I will admit she IS obese but it is not of her own doing. She was born with two club hands, which means her fingers touch her inside wrist and the wrist itself curves completely inward. Also, her thyroid does not work at all; it never has. Synthroid, the medication she takes that is supposed to be a drug that replaces the hormone or whatever it is that the thyroid releases has been on the market for YEARS to treat people whose thyroids either never worked since birth or stopped working throughout their life or had to be removed due to disease or dysfunction through no part of the person who had to have the thyroid removed; yet, our FDA allows doctors to write prescriptions every day and allowed pharmacies to fill said prescriptions every day for a drug that treats non-functioning thyroids even though said drug has yet to be cleared for use as a drug to replace the function of the thyroid, unlike insulin, which HAS FDA approval and actually has a purpose, proven of course, to replace the enzymes that burn and control sugar in diabetics.

Please also tell me why the FDA hasn't technically approved the use of anti-malarial drugs to treat people with lupus yet in over 50 years, this has been the ONLY drug on the market to slow the progress of lupus from spreading throughout the body with two major downsides; 1: the anti-malarial drugs cause lupus patients to throw up the drug due to nausea and vomiting, which is written on the bottle as is the warning to stay out of sunlight as it can and does contribute to severe burns.. (I am privy to that information personally as I had 2nd degree burns despite sitting under a huge beach umbrella while lathered from head to toe with the strongest SPF rating sunscreen, wearing a wide brim hat, and a pant/shirt cover over my bathing suit just to spent a few minutes with my daughter at the water's edge a few years ago while my close friend spent the rest of the time with her and with her own son whose a little younger than my youngest daughter; I came home with a burn area across the back of my shoulder line that was a 2nd degree burn that had become infected and the infection was so bad that skin was hardened to the point where one could tap it with an instrument and it make a thumping sound much like crusted skin covering a large area where a thick scab would be on the body)... 2: In order for the anti-malarial drug to be effective enough to slow the progress of lupus, it has to be taken at such a high dose that it causes blindness as the drug itself damages the retinal cells in the eyes whether in the sun or in a dark room. If I stop taking this drug, the lupus will run rampant. I already have a genetic retinal disease so continuing to take the drug, while it does give me a longer life span in hopes of a cure to become available before my vital organs begin to fail - which puts me out of the organ donation program --- I will lose what little remaining light perception I retain much sooner. It's a choice of living longer and hoping for a cure for the autoimmune disease while losing my eyesight completely or stop the drug and save what little light perception I have remaining and dying from the disease killing my vital organs and the rest of my body from the inside out, which it is doing anyhow but at a slower rate)

The FDA can kiss my collective lupus/Sjogren's infected ASS! I will find e-liquid even if it means buying e-nic and concentrates of flavors on the black market then so be it. They've got so much wrong over the years they don't want to get anything right. They pander to the rich and the BT and BPH because they know as well as BT and BPH that if BPH finds a cure for things like lupus, Sjogren's, blindness (various causes) diabetes, and all the other diseases out there like AIDs, HIV, leukemia, and the like then the pharmaceutical companies are out of big business... and the FDA Won't have anyone to grease their palms so they can buy their cottages at Martha's Vineyards or take those trips to the Caribbean when the rest of us are barely making ends meet while freezing our asses off and paying for their family vacations along with their perfect healthcare with our lives and the lives of our loved ones. It's sickening! Now they want to take away the one vice many people have left after having given up so many out of sheer necessity after Bush bankrupted the country with his trillions of dollars to Iraq and Afghanistan yet didn't capture Bin Laden b/c that would hurt the family business and so they stick us with the bill once again.

With regards to the health care program, I want someone in the government to explain to me why our forefathers wrote every United States Citizen has the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS? Our liberty is nearly gone; we can't afford to pursue happiness of any sort; and what makes it all worse is that life is a privilege for the limited few, not the masses who pay all the bills this country owes. There is no RIGHT TO LIFE! It disappeared along with our tax dollars and our moral compass over the last 8 years while a certain administration was stealing the treasury and using the money as if it were their own private piggy bank.

Imagine if the average citizen ran a business the way the Bush/Cheney/& Co did these last three years? Then on top of it all, Haliburton's subsidiary has chosen to include the gang rape of its female employees as a corporate problem that deserves arbitration and NOT CRIMINALIZATION? What has this country come to? It's downright insane!

mayte

This coming from the agency that let Fen-Fen on the market and didn't retract it until after hundreds of people died from heart attacks b/c of the drug. My biological father's twin sister was almost one of them. I will admit she IS obese but it is not of her own doing. She was born with two club hands, which means her fingers touch her inside wrist and the wrist itself curves completely inward. Also, her thyroid does not work at all; it never has. Synthroid, the medication she takes that is supposed to be a drug that replaces the hormone or whatever it is that the thyroid releases has been on the market for YEARS to treat people whose thyroids either never worked since birth or stopped working throughout their life or had to be removed due to disease or dysfunction through no part of the person who had to have the thyroid removed; yet, our FDA allows doctors to write prescriptions every day and allowed pharmacies to fill said prescriptions every day for a drug that treats non-functioning thyroids even though said drug has yet to be cleared for use as a drug to replace the function of the thyroid, unlike insulin, which HAS FDA approval and actually has a purpose, proven of course, to replace the enzymes that burn and control sugar in diabetics.

Please also tell me why the FDA hasn't technically approved the use of anti-malarial drugs to treat people with lupus yet in over 50 years, this has been the ONLY drug on the market to slow the progress of lupus from spreading throughout the body with two major downsides; 1: the anti-malarial drugs cause lupus patients to throw up the drug due to nausea and vomiting, which is written on the bottle as is the warning to stay out of sunlight as it can and does contribute to severe burns.. (I am privy to that information personally as I had 2nd degree burns despite sitting under a huge beach umbrella while lathered from head to toe with the strongest SPF rating sunscreen, wearing a wide brim hat, and a pant/shirt cover over my bathing suit just to spent a few minutes with my daughter at the water's edge a few years ago while my close friend spent the rest of the time with her and with her own son whose a little younger than my youngest daughter; I came home with a burn area across the back of my shoulder line that was a 2nd degree burn that had become infected and the infection was so bad that skin was hardened to the point where one could tap it with an instrument and it make a thumping sound much like crusted skin covering a large area where a thick scab would be on the body)... 2: In order for the anti-malarial drug to be effective enough to slow the progress of lupus, it has to be taken at such a high dose that it causes blindness as the drug itself damages the retinal cells in the eyes whether in the sun or in a dark room. If I stop taking this drug, the lupus will run rampant. I already have a genetic retinal disease so continuing to take the drug, while it does give me a longer life span in hopes of a cure to become available before my vital organs begin to fail - which puts me out of the organ donation program --- I will lose what little remaining light perception I retain much sooner. It's a choice of living longer and hoping for a cure for the autoimmune disease while losing my eyesight completely or stop the drug and save what little light perception I have remaining and dying from the disease killing my vital organs and the rest of my body from the inside out, which it is doing anyhow but at a slower rate)

The FDA can kiss my collective lupus/Sjogren's infected ASS! I will find e-liquid even if it means buying e-nic and concentrates of flavors on the black market then so be it. They've got so much wrong over the years they don't want to get anything right. They pander to the rich and the BT and BPH because they know as well as BT and BPH that if BPH finds a cure for things like lupus, Sjogren's, blindness (various causes) diabetes, and all the other diseases out there like AIDs, HIV, leukemia, and the like then the pharmaceutical companies are out of big business... and the FDA Won't have anyone to grease their palms so they can buy their cottages at Martha's Vineyards or take those trips to the Caribbean when the rest of us are barely making ends meet while freezing our asses off and paying for their family vacations along with their perfect healthcare with our lives and the lives of our loved ones. It's sickening! Now they want to take away the one vice many people have left after having given up so many out of sheer necessity after Bush bankrupted the country with his trillions of dollars to Iraq and Afghanistan yet didn't capture Bin Laden b/c that would hurt the family business and so they stick us with the bill once again.

With regards to the health care program, I want someone in the government to explain to me why our forefathers wrote every United States Citizen has the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS? Our liberty is nearly gone; we can't afford to pursue happiness of any sort; and what makes it all worse is that life is a privilege for the limited few, not the masses who pay all the bills this country owes. There is no RIGHT TO LIFE! It disappeared along with our tax dollars and our moral compass over the last 8 years while a certain administration was stealing the treasury and using the money as if it were their own private piggy bank.

Imagine if the average citizen ran a business the way the Bush/Cheney/& Co did these last three years? Then on top of it all, Haliburton's subsidiary has chosen to include the gang rape of its female employees as a corporate problem that deserves arbitration and NOT CRIMINALIZATION? What has this country come to? It's downright insane!

Rocketman

Juice, spare parts and NATO ammo.

Keep about a 2 year supply of each.

and salt.

The Rocket
(they are watching us, I just feel it.)

LeCig

Mayte,

A really good friend of mine died in the 90s from fen fen. Let's not forget the host of drugs making James Sokolov rich off bad drug law suits.

The tomato scare of last year, which the FDA could not find the source (so they claimed) when it was Mexico. US tomato producers lost 100s of millions in that fiasco.

The FDA is not the source for protection, imo ... their track record speaks for itself.

Rocketman

Paragraph one from a news article, about tobacco cigarettes, not e-cigs.

Keep your stuff clean guys.

WEDNESDAY, Dec. 2 (HealthDay News) -- New research provides evidence that the average cigarette is crawling with germs, including bacteria that cause respiratory disease.