Rocketman

The Dr. Kavorkee DIY Juice Tester
When mixing a batch of DIY juice I usually compare the thickness with some ‘store bought’ juice that seems to wick and vape like I want and try to match my mix to about the same viscosity as the store bought. Most of my e-juice mixes contain some store bought, some PG, some VG, some High-NIC unflavored, extra flavor, and a little water or ethanol as thinner if I used any pure VG in the mix. A word of caution to the DIY e-juice mixologist; once too thin, it takes a lot of VG to thicken it back up. Predicting the final results when using the multitude of available ingredients is nearly impossible.
The home brew apparatus in the photos uses 7 identical (hopefully) 10ml inkjet refill syringes that can be filled with various liquids. It can indicate ‘Drain Rate’ or relative viscosity when comparing similar liquids, like those commonly used to mix e-juice. A device like this (but maybe with fewer syringes) would be really handy in standardizing your PG/VG mixes.
After pulling the plungers to start the test, the syringes are allowed to drain for about a minute before recording the liquid levels (has something to do with laminar flow or corioles effect or something). Then record and calculate the difference using the one minute level as an initial point. Drain rate is calculated by dividing the change in level by the elapsed time (ml/min).
The liquids starting from left to right:
(Left is over here………………………….Right is on this side)
1. Pretty darn pure Vegetable Glycerin,
2. VG with 5% water,
3. VG with 10% water,
4. VG with 15% water,
5. Propylene Glycol
6. 36mg/ml Red Bull 70/30 PG/VG from FSUSA,
7. 24mg/ml Marl all PG Dekang.
This test was performed @ 25 degrees C just because that happened to be room temperature. The results may be slightly skewed as I didn’t really take my time with the VG/water mixtures but are probably within a percent or two. I’m more careful measuring NIC Juice. But the objective was met; to show that e-juice thinning can be a little touchy if you don’t have a method to monitor thickness.








One of these days when the pure VG drains, I’ll dump all seven in a mixing vessel and record it on a mixing record and add more stuff to it for a batch of RY4, Redbull, Marl, Cherry @ about 12mg/ml, and of course recheck the ‘Drain Rate’
Rocketman

Attached Thumbnails

mrwizard

Nice setup, Rocky.
This confirms my own drip tests using a pipette that VG diluted between 15-20% equals the viscosity of PG.

Strange that the supposedly 100% PG Dekang Marl would act closer to VG than PG.
I wonder what they add to it?

Rocketman

I have no earthly idea what is put into e-juice, other than the NIC.
I have been doing this with my mixes for quite a while (comparing to store bought).
Many brands, (which means at least two different Chinese manufacturers )and they all come out to about 1 min 30 sec per ml at 20C.
Even juice from our buddy at Vermont Vapor which was all VG, came out with about the same 'drop rate'.
For the at home DIY, that has juice that works well for them, a drop test would help with final thinning.


(the long needle might satisfy the recommendation of a L/D ratio greater than 10:1 to establish laminar flow)

mrwizard

Now that I would expect.
VG can be diluted down easily to a good wicking consistency with water and still be an "all VG" juice (which is what a good vendor should be doing).
However, since almost every brand and type of flavoring I've used is between the consistency of water and PG, it makes me wonder what is being added to Dekang's "all PG" juice that thickens it to the point of being like a VG/PG blend?

Rocketman

I don't have any other 'unadulterated' store bought to try at the moment, but I've heard some folks say "this juice is too thin" or "this juice is too thick" so there seems to be some variations in how some suppliers mix their juice. Shouldn't there be a somewhat narrow range that works well? If so, what is the norm?

How about those selling high nic unflavored? With many supplying custom PG/VG ratios, what is the thickness for different ratios? Do they normally 'thin for use' or let it go as is? A lot of the unflavored I've bought I just didn't bother checking until mixed and ready for final thinning. But what is the 'standard'? Is it = to pure PG? If so, that would be easy for anyone to replicate with their DIY mixes.

Inquiring minds want to know

mrwizard

Well I'm not privy to the recipes of any nicjuice vendors out there, but I do know of one that's kicking around the idea of offering similar VG blends to those he uses in his own recipes.
Straight VG, VG diluted with RO/DI water, and VG diluted with grain alcohol.

With your setup it would be easy for you to find out the answer to the "standard".
Either start shopping around all the current crop of vendors, or maybe you'll find some members willing to donate a few cc's of their DIY stash in the name of science.

Rocketman

I wonder who that is
and what "standard" do you think he will use?

I've used my drop test for about two years but have increased the number of syringes somewhat (remember the "drop the grape" post?)
It is for my own standardization, and posted for anyone that does DIY to replicate. Shopping around for commercial e-juice would probably only demonstrate the variations that many are complaining about, "this is too thin" or "too thick", and my preferences may not be the same as someone else's.

If a vaper relies on store bought juice they wil probably migrate to a vendor that produces something they like. But for the DIYer, something other than a JAVA script on-line calculator is probably needed. A couple of ink jet syringes are cheaper than lab equipment to perform basically the same test, and we probably only want mix-to-mix consistency, not actual traceable measurements.

How about some commentary from some of the members about their observations on e-juice thickness, or maybe even some of our "suppliers" on their views?

berger

well I also think there are big variations just based on the temperature..for example..all vg juice from CCV has its viscosity fluctuates quit a bit on the difference between leaving it in your pocket or sitting out in the ac...so for VG content this temperature variation seems to make a huge difference

Rocketman

Good thought. That could be a difference of 10C in temperature. I.m sure VG viscosity changes over that wide a temperature range.

Wonder what it is inside a warm carto?

berger

it wicks faster in a warm clear dual coil then a new one...noticed that before

Rocketman

I'm getting rather low on my DIY mix, had to "borrow" some from the swamplady's bottle.
So, the big batch I spoke of a while back will be coming up soon. I went back and checked some of my old mix records and it seems my thinner (mostly water) was closer to 10% than 6% in final trim. Some of the flavors probably thinned things a little also. I'll post info about the mix, and maybe even use the 'DrKavorkee' to compare the DeKang, pure PG and my mix. I'll try for something between the two.

WyldRice

Yep, Great thread Rocketman! Had to pull it up for the noob DIYers like myself! I will try the water method to thin mine.

I have to say TEMP has effected my juice. If I lay my wizard's stick down on the cold car seat, it thickens up fast! Couple of pulls and it's a little runnier.
Being in winter could be part of my problem... Time to move to Hawaii Hunny!
(Yeah right!)

Rocketman

I also notice a 'seasonal' variation in juice thickness.
Just don't go 'too thin'. Hard to come back from there.

Some folks seem to like to 'thin' with PG. That will 'UP' your PG/VG ratio.
But it works. Sort of

gwp

I thin my vg by 20%. 10% distiled water and 10% PGA

WyldRice

Sweety, Dont you mean WPGA? lol

Rocketman

or maybe 100 proof Vodka?