berger

you didnt get into a coop for tiramisu did ya?...

bamsbbq

nope..that flavor scares the heck out of me..i couldnt do anything with it, tastes nothing like the real thing no matter how small of a quantity you use..lol

blueaussie

Wow! Bamsbbq, that is cool. Its a small world. Might take you up on that if I don't become master of disaster. Thanks, Craig

jacatro

So many reasons Im better off buying pre-mixed...I keep supplies on hand in case the stuff gets banned tho-
QUESTION: How long can I safely store supplies? Im thinking the flavors forever, but what about my nic juice? I use pre-mixed plain (EX: MFS 70/30 24mg)

Rocketman

ja,
the unflavored mix you have should be able to survive well over a year in the fridge, maybe 2 years in the home freezer. Seems cold to you but not to Nic, PG, and VG.
Make sure the light goes out in your fridge when the door is closed.
(government conspiracy to spy on you)

Contact Chris at MFS for his specific recommendation.

berger

Im sure Wiz would know this better then anybody else...but..
I would think a least a year in cool dark places for nic...longer Id bet refrigerated if kept sealed and nitrogen blanketed like I think Wiz does with his stuff
I use 100% VG base and would bet its "best if used by" life span is likely shorter then 100% PG would be
as far as flavors I have not a clue..just guessing Id say a year as well but Im not sure if any two are really the same or not??

I also can get you insulated peep viewers for the fridge door

bamsbbq

no problem

i do have some Tiramisu if you really want some..lmao

seriously though..the only thing i am lacking is small bottles to put the flavorings in but i can hook you up with a 1/2 cup or more of PG

DiVersity

This is the first time that any of the DIY basics ( how to do it correctly, safely, before you even start your first mixing) were explained so clearly.

I too am buying pre-mixes, Jacatro though I'm very intrigued by the DIY liquids aspect of vaping.

Thanks for the link to Rocketman's Tutorial

mrwizard

Not much to add that could improve on Rocky's post.
The professor hits it on the head as usual.

Different mfg recommedations range from 12-18 month shelf lifes for PG, VG, and nic.
I'd be comfortable using 2+ yr old nicjuice if sealed and kept in the freezer.

Nicjuice doesn't have an "expiration date" so much as a "best by date".
As the nicotine oxidizes it will get darker (nic oxide is brown) and develop a stronger nicotine flavor and odor which may be slightly unpleasant to some.

What I can add is this...

Don't panic and stock up on years' worth of nicjuice in anticipation of the vaping apocalypse.
Vaping is not going anywhere, and cannot be "banned" at this point.
The only thing that gov regs could really change is the way that vaping is advertised and sold.

Supplies will always be available.
Batteries, food flavorings, PG, VG would be completely unaffected.
As for the other necessities, The Chinese don't care about our rules and have a long history of getting anything they want through customs to get a US dollar.

Anyone with access to a forum will have a full support network of private sales even if all the vaping vendors closed their sites.
The long and the short of it is vaping is too widespread and has grown too large for prohibition to work anymore.

Hou998

I was told PG has a shelf life of 2 years when stored below 40 degrees in an airtight container and away from any UV light. VG shelf life is shorter at 12 to 16.

Wiz...don't cotinine reaction levels slow with refrigeration and freezing which also discolors nic?

mrwizard

Depending on the manufacturer, I've seen "expiration dates" as short as 12 months on PG, assuming room temp storage.
Just like food manufacturers, they're going to hedge their bets and print a date that is well inside the actual shelf life for safety/liability sake... and we should probably follow their lead, but personally, I don't think there is any problem with longterm storage of 2+ years if it's kept in cold storage (I prefer freezing), and it isn't constantly going through a freeze/thaw cycle and left sitting out, open to contaminates for too long.

My standard vaping practice is to break up any large amounts into smaller containers, freeze, and just take out what I'm going to use for a couple weeks, leaving the rest alone til it's needed.

For the second part, Yes, refrigeration and freezing will help slow most reactions, although I think you meant Nicotine Oxide as opposed to Cotinine.

I'm not a doctor or a chemist, but if I'm not mistaken I believe Nicotine Oxide is the primary product of reaction with O2, and Cotinine is mainly an enzyme product. Cotinine is the indicator used for Nicotine drug tests on smokers.

There's so much we still don't know, and even the professional chemists over at the big forum continue to debate these things.
Hopefully as the industry grows more mainstream there will be better funding for studies and we can get some more definitive answers.

Hou998

No chemist here either but a friend (chemist) explained to me that continie (a lactum) is a reaction product of the nic to O2 and that refrigeration/freezing slows it down. He was just trying to help with long term storage questions. Thx Wiz.

berger

http://labtestsonline.org/understand...ine/tab/glance

apparently the testing for Cotinine is due to the much longer 1/2 life in the body..makes a better indicator for life insurance liars..
Speaking of that.. I wonder if any insurance companies have started offering discounts for vapers over smokers or if there is any test to be able to tell the difference now???..seems like a golden opportunity for a progressive insurance marketer..(no pun intended Flo)

mrwizard

If you get the chance, ask him about nic oxide and a comparison between the two reactions. I've been following other chemists' discussions on the subject and any additional input would be great.

Hou998

Hey Wiz not sure this will help as he was very busy. He says the nic oxide process would effect color more than the cotinine simply from the bottle being opened. He was speaking on the cotinine at the metabolite level and said this to effects color and the metabolism is slowed down due to the cold temps. So my take from this is to obviously replace the cap as quickly as possible to minimize the oxidation process (and keeping headspace at a minimum as well) and to keep it cold to minimize the metabolizing of cotinine. Sorry I couldn't get more info right now.

mrwizard

Thanks, Rob. Every little bit helps open new avenues of research.