nopatch

Dear vapeatrons,I need advice on using dse-901(or some other device) as per this document.

I want to drip about two drops of Pyruvic acid on dse901 atomiser and use a blank cartridge with filler(Not touching the atomiser) soaked in nicotine solution.I will be using a manual battery to warm up the atty for a second,release the button and then inhale through the the cartridge.

The idea is to cause pyruvic acid vapor(It will be a very weak vapor) to react with nicotine while it is passing through the cartridge and form clouds of nicotine pyruvate.As per the document the end product(nicotine pyruvate in air) being inhaled will mimic analog cigarette smoke.

I need you good folks including modding experts to vet this idea.

Thanks
Chandra

tek

Ok Chandra, if you want to die, this is deffinatly the way to do this.. I just read threw the patent app, and it is to form a patent for all types of ecig related items, from gas systems, to electric, to ever conciveable ecig manufactured, effictively shutting down the ecig in america..

100mg is way way way to strong to use, and the pyruvic acid, will not help you with this and what you want to do. IMO you can and probably will die, or at least cause great harm to your self. I dont know if you are being serious, or trolling but this is some bad stuff your talking about.. The current delivery system of a suspension of propline glycol, and vegetable glycerin with nicotine mixed down to a strength of about 24mg/ml or lower is effective and with the introduction of the alkolids from the tobacco plant, can be as satisfying or more then a cig..

nopatch

Tek,

Please leave the chemical aspects to me.With regards to nicotine solution i will be only using a couple of drops at a time.I will edit the concentration thing though.

40bikes

Chandra,I've been a member here for more than 2 years and have never heard such a proposal. I have no experience with such a process;but I urge caution and restraint before trying this.
Someone with more knowledge of chemistry and physiology may be able to help but the current methods of vaping technology and operation are quite satisfactory for my requirements.

tek

Well i am not trying to take the chemical aspects away from you, i am trying to answer a proposial with the best of my knowlage, like you asked for.. The standard cig contains some where between 16 and 18 mg of nic per inhale so says some reports i found when i started over a year ago. The way it was worded with some say 100mg/ml, makes me think that the hazords listed on the msds sheet for nic do not apply, and that you may think that it is some what of a joke.. When i saw the post, i was scared for you and ment no offence, you see a poison we use is nic, and it does not take much to enter our bodys to cause sever effects.. I mean all of this stuff demands respect, and caution.. I was just advising of such.. i did not and have not tried to say i am a better chemist nor any other thing, its was just heart felt words... I hope you understand my position better now.

berger

Nopatch,
without getting into the merits of concentrations (which appear extremely high in comparison to what we vapers are used to using)..just about any atty should work fine due to the silica wicking material the nichrome coil is wrapped around. You could just de-bridge the atty if you wanted to observe it better. It might be even easier for you to use a CE2 cartomiser and drip directly into the top ceramic cup where the coil is readily visible for your experimentation. Considering the proposed nicotine levels I would not use this device for continuous actual vaping based on real world experience it would be too high an exposure for any practical use.

RY4

I appreciate your advice. And yes, this stuff does demand respect and caution. Any information/advice for safety is always priceless.

nopatch

I am having second thoughts about discussing this in an open forum.This set up is dangerous if proper precautions are not taken.

I will explain the process a bit.There is no evaporation of nictoine-pg solution here and that is the reason the filler loaded with nicotine is not going to touch the atomizer or heater coil.The acid rests on wick of the atomizer.The manual battery will be used to warm the acid a bit and not boil(Or evaporate ).Upon inhalation(Battery is off here) a tiny bit of acid vapor rides along with air and pass through cartridge(Which is at a distance from atty), which has a filler loaded with nicotine.At this point the pyru acid and nicotine react and form smoke like thing which is what ends up in lungs.

In this setup The pg doesn't get evaporated so tank cartridges are out.

I only saw dse-901 pics and i am not sure this flow pattern i am envisaging is correct i.e. Air passing through atty and cartridge.

Thanks.

berger

Well I never had a 901 to say positively but I would guess it has a couple air holes down low like pretty much all the other attys to draw air across the coil..otherwise it wouldn't work for vaping

quasimod

I've used 901's, they are very similar to 510's except there is an additional hole/air inlet on the side, down low towards the threads.

Teri

Where's Rocket and Mr Wiz when we need them!
This just doesn't sound at all safe.

quasimod

The word "acid" doesn't automatically mean something dangerous that will burn your face off, haha. I don't know much about it, I'm just sayin'.

Rocketman

Nopatch,
This is in response to your question about the 901 atty.

The heating element of the 901 (and most current production atomizers and cartomizers) depend on a liquid thermal load to prevent the heating element from getting very hot. Normal operation depends on the liquid wicking into direct contact with the heater. Vapers who "drip" are tasked with keeping enough liquid in contact with the heater and that is a fine balance between flooding and dry. If the heater goes dry under power it will GLOW (called a DRY BURN). They all do it, sometimes you just can't see it.

The air flow path of a cartridge (for a 901 or similar) is not through the filler/liquid but through separate passages along side the filler chamber. I've found getting consistent liquid flow from the filler material to be difficult. A full filler wicks well when in direct contact with the heater or bridge but not when there is a gap.

Hope that helped.


Rocket

WyldRice

Here's the first problem
Ok, so it doesn't VAPORize the acid... but it is only acid VAPOR that passes thru, and combusts- Anyone else see a problem?

Cool, so you can VAPE nicotine! Wow!
All you have to do is add acid, and use a very high pharma grade concentration of nic!
SIGN ME UP!!!
I want that ACID/NIC/SMOKE/VAPOR/DUST in my LUNGS!
See Dick- See Dick smoke Acid- See Dick get ill -

berger

What?!...you think Phillip Morris would invent something that could endanger us?!?
thats just silly...

nopatch

Thanks rocketman .

Actually there would not be any evaporation(Not significant, at least).

It did help .And it rules out dse-901 .

I did have confusion regarding this.The first ecig i laid my hands on was the infamous health ecig.I think it is something like dse-901 .

The acid vapor(very Lean) mixed with Air has to necessarily pass over nicotine soaked filler otherwise there is the danger of inhaling unreacted acid vapors.

nopatch

The invention was by One Jed rose of Duke Center for Nicotine and Smoking Cessation Research.Marlboro bought the rights.

Most of the ejuices have nicotine salts.The formulators neutralize nicotine with acetic acid , citric acid etc.

berger

wonder why they waited so long to apply..they must think there's something better about it then vaping..in fact RJR actually had a patent for something like a portable butane hookah for tobacco but the sales never went anywhere

Rocketman

This would probably not be suitable for the current ecig attys and cartos. The heating element would need to be temperature controlled. Heat of evaporation (heat lost in the vapor stream) is what keeps the heater from glowing red. Without heat being transferred to the vapor stream the heat would only serve to heat the element. The typical dry coil gets 'Over Temperature' in one or two seconds.
The filler used in most carts and cartos would also have to be redesigned to prevent accidental ingestion of liquid nicotine when drawing directly through the Nicotine soaked filler. This is something most vapers experience drawing on a full carto. Not a problem getting a drop or few of 12mg/ml e-juice in your mouth.
Carts and cartos would have to be leak proof (another problem most vapers just put up with).

There are several minor little issues we put up with when using e-cigs. I don't think any of the currently available models would be suitable for a more complicated and risky delivery system. Heck, even the simple devices we have now don't always work as advertised

berger

it seems the entire idea was prior to vaping devices...not saying it couldn't work in theory but a what cost and more importantly why now? doesn't sound like it will ever be close to as good as or as cheap as current vaping tech. If they want to throw the money away it would have been better to go back to sponsoring nascar. Oh yea...right....forgot about that...

quasimod

Can I get an "Amen"?

Amen, brutha!

Does anyone know how hot nichrome typically is when it glows orange? I saw it somewhere, but haven't been able to re-find it (and I've looked!). There was a listing of temperatures and colors, like dull orange, bright orange, white hot, that sort of thing.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Here it is:

Doesn’t really matter what the emitter is…stainless
steel, cast iron, tungsten in your light bulb, the temps
are about the same for a given color. Generally
accepted colors/temps are:

C....F...............Color

400 752 Red heat, visible in the dark
474 885 Red heat, visible in the twilight
525 975 Red heat, visible in the daylight
581 1077 Red heat, visible in the sunlight
700 1292 Dark red
800 1472 Dull cherry-red
900 1652 Cherry-red
1000 1832 Bright cherry-red
1100 2012 Orange-red

C= Centigrade
F= Fahrenheit

Rocketman

Take a CE2, Clear Cartomizer and go vape in front of the mirror in the bathroom with the light off.
If it glows, it ain't wicking

Wonder what the ones we can't see into are doing when we vape.

quasimod

Me too.


EDIT: Dang! I did a "me too" post. I try to avoid those. Just so it's not a completely useless post, here's some info:

When glycerol is heated to 280 °C, it decomposes into acrolein. Acrolein (propenal) is the simplest unsaturated aldehyde. It is produced widely but is most often immediately reacted with other products due to its instability and toxicity. It has a piercing, disagreeable, acrid smell; the smell of burnt fat (as when cooking oil is heated to its smoke point), so I think people are unlikely to intentionally ingest dangerous amounts.

Again, no need to freak out, but I would be interested in an atty design that couldn't possibly never-ever-ever heat even the smallest amount of VG above 280 °C (536 °F).

Steampunk

Me too

quasimod

I fixed mine...