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12-25-2011, 01:09 AM
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#1 | | Gangsta Chimp Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Joplin, MO - USA
Posts: 1,298
| http://www.ebay.com/itm/18650-IMR-LI...item5ae3f44514
Top-rated eBay seller, 100% positive feedback (how is that possible?!), says: Quote:
WE ARE A REPUTABLE COMPANY AND THE FIRST COMPANY TO SELL THESE BATTERIES TO THE GENERAL MARKET. YOU WILL FIND 100'S OF POSTS AND REVIEWS ON MESSAGE BOARDS REGARDING OUR BATTERIES UNDER CALLIES KUSTOMS!
This listing is for a Genuine Panasonic made in Japan 3.7v 2250mah IMR 18650 Lithium Ion battery. These batteries are perfect for high discharge flashlights and Vapers. These are the highest capacity IMR batteries on the market Period. IMR batteries typically have a capacity of about 900-1600mah. These are a full 2250mah! We have tested these against every other IMR we could get our hands on and we feel these are hands down the best on the market!
| I'm a bit skeptical. Before I re-activate my PayPal account (shudder), do any of you battery guys have an opinion on this? | 
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12-25-2011, 01:23 AM
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#3 | | Gangsta Chimp Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Joplin, MO - USA
Posts: 1,298
| searching....
Nope. So what was the verdict, legit or no?
Found this: Quote:
From:
http://www.pinoyvapersforum.com/Foru...-battery#20035
I usually try to avoid putting my 2 cents worth in on things like this but, this time I will make an exception. I do it this time because when some seller so blatantly mis-labels their product and makes such absurd claims about how much better it is than anybody else's, well... It just p!$$'s me off.
If you go to their own website and look at the dis-charge curve (Panasonic's own curve by the way) you will see that this is nothing more than a mis-labeled 2600mah battery assembled with Panasonic cells. I know for a fact that the AW P18650-2600 has exactly the same specs and dis-charge curve. (What does *that* tell you?) Kallie's Kustoms "trick" is in using the curve to determine the voltage level where they get the "3,100mah rating". As you can plainly see, they determine their cutoff voltage at 2.5 volts. Any *reputable* battery seller rates their battery at about the 3.5 volt level as the cutoff point of their rating. (The point where the voltage starts to drop more rapidly.)
As for it being "safe" to use these batteries down to 2.5 volts well, its "safe" to take *any* of them down to 2.5 volts but, why would you want to do that? It shortens the useful life of *any* li-ion battery to do that. Besides, think about it, how much vapor are you going to produce below 3.5 volts anyway.
And finally... You can take *any* protected battery with this cell chemistry and do exactly what they did with their cute little dramatization and get exactly the same results. That is... As long that little protection circuit hasn't been damaged or failed for some other reason.
Nah! I'll give this one a pass. I'm going to save my hard earned money and look elsewhere and buy from a reputable seller.
Just my thoughts.
roi
| I'm not sure what any of that means, but it doesn't sound too good...
Last edited by quasimod; 12-25-2011 at 01:44 AM..
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12-25-2011, 01:37 AM
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#4 | | Alright, Who Farted!!?? Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 2,535
| Quote:
Originally Posted by quasimod  searching....
Nope. So what was the verdict, legit or no? | There wasn't a verdict....
But if you click on that second link I provided, you'll see all of the forum's they're on, first of which shows testing results with photographs, comment #10 and others: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/2949
You can also find the new 3100's here: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...read-*Part-12* | |
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12-25-2011, 01:50 AM
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#5 | | Gangsta Chimp Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Joplin, MO - USA
Posts: 1,298
| I think if this was legit, the flashlight geeks over at CPF would be running around peeing their pants, and I would have heard about it by now. (No offense, Rocky  )
Also, I didn't see anything about them at that CPF link, just regular IMR's.
Last edited by quasimod; 12-25-2011 at 02:01 AM..
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12-25-2011, 02:12 AM
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#6 | | Alright, Who Farted!!?? Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 2,535
| The eBay one's are unprotected and are a buck less on their website.
But here's the same video that's posted on their website: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErKyND4_Gf4
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be legit, but I'm not an expert.
I do know that Panasonic and I think LG? are producing new technology batteries. | |
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12-25-2011, 02:18 AM
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#7 | | Gangsta Chimp Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Joplin, MO - USA
Posts: 1,298
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Shekinahsgroom ...I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be legit, but I'm not an expert.. | I'm no expert either, not by a long shot. I hate PayPal, and now my @#$% credit card isn't working, so I can't even buy the regular IMR's. I'll figure it all out later, thanks for the input shek, good night. | |
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12-25-2011, 10:52 AM
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#8 | | Dismembered Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: USA
Posts: 759
| Quote:
Originally Posted by quasimod I think if this was legit, the flashlight geeks over at CPF would be running around peeing their pants, and I would have heard about it by now. (No offense, Rocky )
Also, I didn't see anything about them at that CPF link, just regular IMR's. | Well for one thing these are not new, and who the hell is Callie? Oh yea he does custom t-shirt printing.
He/she are calling them IMR, odd that Panasonic doesn't list them/mark them as such. When we think of IMR we think of the LiMN cells, these are NOT LiMN. The AW IMR18650 for example has a discharge rating of 10C, not 10A. 10C = 16A. The tacky eBay ad is an embarrassment. It would be a cold day in hell that I would spend my money with such a shyster.
Love this line: Quote: |
++++ Please understand 95% of the batteries coming out of China are fakes! Meaning they take recycled laptop batteries and put them in new wrappers. They are then pawned off as new batteries at cheap prices.
| Yea OK... MORON.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the cells, I'm saying Callie is a liar.
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I don't often drink beer, but when I do it sure as Hell ain't coming from Mexico. | |
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12-25-2011, 11:18 AM
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#9 | | Darth Vaper Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Leftern Mass
Posts: 10,277
| At least one of them is protected. I will NOT use an UNPROTECTED BATTERY no matter what!
__________________ Do you mind if I STEAM?!
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Now will you all please leave while Dr Berger and I make out the Death Certificates!  | |
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12-25-2011, 11:51 AM
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#10 | | awarded title of Sir Arse Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 6,667
| 1) It is a good cell.
The 2250mah rating is outstanding for an IMR (safer chemistry) cell.
The 10 amp continuous (probably 20 amp short circuit) is absolutely necessary for high powered incandescent flashlights with a startup current much higher than running current.
With an e-cig, the 20 amp current potential would eliminate "Intermittant" failures should a carto short or wth any other internal failure. The bad part would be vaporized and simplify troubleshooting
This highlights the fine line between "safer chemistry" and "high current capability".
The cost may make these uneconomical for someone that needs several cells but 2250mah should be adequate for most applications.
Edit: read all the posts here and MY thoughts are if they are really IMR, they would be LiMnNi cells. Maybe not.
The "safer chemistry" cells do not have Over Current protection or Over Discharge protection.
If you NEED over 6 amps then think about using these, or the AW cells.
Neither Callie or AW make their cells.
My long standing position has been to employ as much "protection" as possible for the device you are using. Flashlight or e-cig.
The cells that have a 2.5 to 3 amp protection circuit should not be used for loads over 2.5 amps. Period.
The cells that have a 4 to 6 amp protection circuit should not be used for high current loads over 4 amps
The cells with 7 to 9 Amp protection circuits (like the AW protected 18650) or IMR cells without some sort of protection for over discharge, or over current, should not be used UNLESS you NEED that kind of current. Even if you THINK they are better than some other brand.
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A good e-juice, fresh carto, and 3.7 volts from a REALLY REALLY BIG battery works for me. YMMV
Originally Posted by Rocketman
...Quasi was right...Once
Last edited by Rocketman; 12-25-2011 at 12:03 PM..
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12-25-2011, 03:46 PM
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#11 | | Modder Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: rhode island usa
Posts: 2,978
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman 1) It is a good cell.
The 2250mah rating is outstanding for an IMR (safer chemistry) cell.
The 10 amp continuous (probably 20 amp short circuit) is absolutely necessary for high powered incandescent flashlights with a startup current much higher than running current.
With an e-cig, the 20 amp current potential would eliminate "Intermittant" failures should a carto short or wth any other internal failure. The bad part would be vaporized and simplify troubleshooting
This highlights the fine line between "safer chemistry" and "high current capability".
The cost may make these uneconomical for someone that needs several cells but 2250mah should be adequate for most applications.
Edit: read all the posts here and MY thoughts are if they are really IMR, they would be LiMnNi cells. Maybe not.
The "safer chemistry" cells do not have Over Current protection or Over Discharge protection.
If you NEED over 6 amps then think about using these, or the AW cells.
Neither Callie or AW make their cells.
My long standing position has been to employ as much "protection" as possible for the device you are using. Flashlight or e-cig.
The cells that have a 2.5 to 3 amp protection circuit should not be used for loads over 2.5 amps. Period.
The cells that have a 4 to 6 amp protection circuit should not be used for high current loads over 4 amps
The cells with 7 to 9 Amp protection circuits (like the AW protected 18650) or IMR cells without some sort of protection for over discharge, or over current, should not be used UNLESS you NEED that kind of current. Even if you THINK they are better than some other brand. | \
I agree with you rockey, you are a wise wise teacher..
The listing is not for a lithium manganese aka imr. Its listed on the main website under li ion, so i would not touch this with a ten foot pole, and i bet they can claim idgnorance on this... http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...+ACA4001+4++WW | |
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12-25-2011, 04:38 PM
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#12 | | Hypervaporation in effect Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Deep in the Heart of the greatest state in the Union
Posts: 1,457
| hmmm Quote: |
Substituting other metals for the iron or lithium in LiMPO4 can also raise its efficiency. A123 and Valence reported the substitution of magnesium, titanium, manganese, zirconium and zinc. Take zinc substitution for example. Substituting zinc for iron increases crystallinity of LiMPO4 because zinc and iron have similar ion radii.[13] Cyclic voltammetry also confirms that LiFe1-xMxPO4, after metal substitution, has higher reversibility of lithium ion insertion and extraction. During lithium extraction, Fe (II) is oxidized to Fe (III) and the lattice volume shrinks. The shrinking volume changes lithium’s returning paths.
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__________________ Drip that tip, to wet the wire. Now vape that juice, no need for fire  Hypervaporation effect in effect | |
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12-25-2011, 08:13 PM
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#13 | | Hypervaporation in effect Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Deep in the Heart of the greatest state in the Union
Posts: 1,457
| Did a little more reading. Those folks don't claim to be using IMRs. What they do claim is to be using Panasonic cells that are safe as IMR. Almost everything on their site can be found on Panasonic's site. Those are Panasonic's claims. The safety and Mah ratings can all be confirmed on different pages but, I looked up each one and the do appear to be legit. Not exactly new. All of the press releases and info pages are from 06-09. Info is all over btw. Main site I found everything below. But the info takes some digging. The are not fibbing just stating Panasonic's claims. Don't shoot the messenger.
Good starting point if you wanna know. http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...CA4000_WW.html
__________________ Drip that tip, to wet the wire. Now vape that juice, no need for fire Hypervaporation effect in effect | |
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12-25-2011, 08:17 PM
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#14 | | Modder Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: rhode island usa
Posts: 2,978
| there listing it as if it were a imr tho in the title of the listing on fleabay.
Sell one like this
18650 IMR LI-ION FLASHLIGHT and VAPE BATTERY rechargeable lithium-Ion 3.7v
WE ARE A REPUTABLE COMPANY AND THE FIRST COMPANY TO SELL THESE BATTERIES TO THE GENERAL MARKET. YOU WILL FIND 100'S OF POSTS AND REVIEWS ON MESSAGE BOARDS REGARDING OUR BATTERIES UNDER CALLIES KUSTOMS!
This listing is for a Genuine Panasonic made in Japan 3.7v 2250mah IMR 18650 Lithium Ion battery. These batteries are perfect for high discharge flashlights and Vapers. These are the highest capacity IMR batteries on the market Period. IMR batteries typically have a capacity of about 900-1600mah. These are a full 2250mah! We have tested these against every other IMR we could get our hands on and we feel these are hands down the best on the market!
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12-25-2011, 08:17 PM
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#15 | | Darth Vaper Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Leftern Mass
Posts: 10,277
| Panasonic has always made very good Li Ion cells.
__________________ Do you mind if I STEAM?!
"well, you see Steam, we never had a rule about it because we didn't think anybody would ever DO it!"
I'm one lab accident away from being a supervillan. I knew that ahole wasn't from jersey...
Now will you all please leave while Dr Berger and I make out the Death Certificates! | |
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12-25-2011, 08:18 PM
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#16 | | Modder Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: rhode island usa
Posts: 2,978
| i am not disputing quality, but rather listing and lies | |
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12-25-2011, 08:24 PM
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#17 | | Darth Vaper Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Leftern Mass
Posts: 10,277
| Quote:
Originally Posted by tek i am not disputing quality, but rather listing and lies | I was actually responding to wetwire, but you got in the way! 
Yeah, I saw the listing on eBay, and the claims are blowing a bit of smoke, aren't they?
__________________ Do you mind if I STEAM?!
"well, you see Steam, we never had a rule about it because we didn't think anybody would ever DO it!"
I'm one lab accident away from being a supervillan. I knew that ahole wasn't from jersey...
Now will you all please leave while Dr Berger and I make out the Death Certificates! | |
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12-25-2011, 08:31 PM
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#18 | | Hypervaporation in effect Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Deep in the Heart of the greatest state in the Union
Posts: 1,457
| Quote:
Originally Posted by tek i am not disputing quality, but rather listing and lies | I see what you mean. Just checked out their website (which is different) The ebay listing is a no non there huh. I wonder if it is intentional (maybe they think peeps would not want to hear "safe as IMR" or just an oopsie by a marketer? Either way they look a lil bad there don't they?
__________________ Drip that tip, to wet the wire. Now vape that juice, no need for fire Hypervaporation effect in effect | |
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12-25-2011, 08:33 PM
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#19 | | Hypervaporation in effect Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Deep in the Heart of the greatest state in the Union
Posts: 1,457
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__________________ Drip that tip, to wet the wire. Now vape that juice, no need for fire Hypervaporation effect in effect | |
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12-25-2011, 08:44 PM
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#20 | | Hypervaporation in effect Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Deep in the Heart of the greatest state in the Union
Posts: 1,457
| Horse's mouth. Apparently they did make a new development in the tech middle of the year. http://panasonicenergy.typepad.com/blog/
Snip - Quote:
Another attribute that makes these cells so special is the improvement in safety by incorporation of the heat resistance layer (HRL). The HRL consists of insulating material between the surface of the negative electrode, and the polyolefin separator, which insulates the cathode from the anode.
The result: prevention of overheating, even if an internal short-circuit would occur. In contrast, without the HRL, when a separator is damaged, a short circuit can occur, causing the battery to overheat and possibly catch fire. The result-better energy density and safer lithium ion batteries for your extended usage and greater peace-of-mind…
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__________________ Drip that tip, to wet the wire. Now vape that juice, no need for fire Hypervaporation effect in effect | |
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12-25-2011, 08:49 PM
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#21 | | Hypervaporation in effect Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Deep in the Heart of the greatest state in the Union
Posts: 1,457
| That ebay vendor does not exactly specialize in batteries eh?
__________________ Drip that tip, to wet the wire. Now vape that juice, no need for fire Hypervaporation effect in effect | |
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12-25-2011, 10:00 PM
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#22 | | Alright, Who Farted!!?? Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 2,535
| Quote:
Originally Posted by wetwire I see what you mean. Just checked out their website (which is different) The ebay listing is a no non there huh. I wonder if it is intentional (maybe they think peeps would not want to hear "safe as IMR" or just an oopsie by a marketer? Either way they look a lil bad there don't they? | Intentional?
Of course.
Because that listing will pop up everytime someone looks for "18650 IMR".
And to suit eBay's rules, they have to describe it in their auction description as such or it's a rule violation.....even if the description and title line is a lie!
If they were describe the battery as it truly is, via "safe as an IMR", it could be flagged as a rule violation because they're advertising an IMR battery in the title line.
And since the title line has limited space, they sacrificed the words "as safe as" and replaced them with other keyword to gain more search engine coverage.
So the lie was definitely intentional, but not on purpose. (They circumvented eBay rules.)
The rule is called key-word spamming. Put in place so sellers cannot use words that hit search engines that do not pertain to the item for sale.
And since the chemical structure of the battery is not widely known, but can be "compared" to the safety of an IMR, they felt the need to stretch the truth in order to get the attention of IMR buyers rather than list a unknown battery composition AND to circumvent an eBay rule restriction in order to gain more consumer search capacity.
And I'll bet that's how Quasi found it....via key-words, like IMR 18650.
Right Quasi?
Now ya know why they lied....
And instead, they're falling back on their eBay reputation to make up for it AND they're website information.
Last edited by Shekinahsgroom; 12-25-2011 at 10:36 PM..
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12-25-2011, 10:47 PM
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#23 | | Dismembered Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: USA
Posts: 759
| Quote:
Originally Posted by wetwire I see what you mean. Just checked out their website (which is different) The ebay listing is a no non there huh. I wonder if it is intentional (maybe they think peeps would not want to hear "safe as IMR" or just an oopsie by a marketer? Either way they look a lil bad there don't they? | He is just plain lying on eBay. It's a very hokey, and poorly written sales pitch, looking like it was done by a 10 year old.
But everything about Callie smacks of lame and unsophisticated. http://callieskustoms.com/
I'm not nearly as safety minded as Rocket, but I do luv a single 26650 mod. I just ordered a 26650 that has tested at 4525mAh.
But it's not an IMR, its shown as an INR26650.
Start Googling.....
As far as IMR safety we hear a lot of Li-Ion horror stories, how many verified legitimate, single cell issues have we seen? You'd think ECF would have at least a dozen or a hundred after all the warnings. 
But I don't think it was in an actual PV. Serious-battery-failure-AW IMR18650-
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I don't often drink beer, but when I do it sure as Hell ain't coming from Mexico. | |
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12-25-2011, 10:49 PM
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#24 | | Alright, Who Farted!!?? Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 2,535
| So you're probably asking why would the seller lie and ruin their reputation?
Cuz most likely, they've been flagged for keyword spamming when they disclosed in the description "as safe as IMR"....
So then they get a warning from Safe Harbor (eBay Police) after their auction is terminated explaining the violation.
Is it a smart business move on their part?
It's certainly a widely practiced way to circumvent eBay policy, in order to gain more search engine advertising....but you sacrifice your reputation in the process.
So what does that mean for the consumer?
It means that you have the freedom to leave negative feedback and disclose the truth.
OR, leave positive feedback cuz you're happy with the product you received.
So look deep into their feedback to see how consumer's respond to "the lie". (If even known?) | |
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12-25-2011, 11:29 PM
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#25 | | Alright, Who Farted!!?? Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 2,535
| Examples: http://www.ebay.com/itm/330610749657
And this would be a rule violation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/330622485195
If you look into their feedback, just into the most recent 200 (to early Oct.), you'll notice both of their li-ion protected and unprotected tabbed 3100's sold many more times than this particular battery.
And you'll also see variations of keywords in the title lines particularly with this "non-IMR".
So there you have it, reason for the lie has just been confirmed.
Intentional, but not on purpose. (See detailed explanation above.) | |
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