Rocketman

Nite ya'll

Shekinahsgroom

See ya at noon....

quasimod

Cellphone weirdness is annoying, did you notice that more of the message showed up AFTER you quoted it, Rocky? XD

Shekinahsgroom

LOL......he altered your post before he quoted it, Quasi.

quasimod

Must be moonlighting for AT&T >

Shekinahsgroom

I'm sorry Quasi, I can't stop laughing....

I just played along cuz I thought for SURE you were gonna see it.

Too funny!

quasimod

OK, OK, I guess I'll just have to revisit this with a bigger screen tomorrow.

wetwire

That revision 3 charger.. looks like they better start working on rev.4 Look at the top left corner of the board.. woops!

Noticed they do not have it for sale as of right now. Just disappeared. hmm



btw - note the melting just to the right of the cap.

berger

no no...its still for sale...check under "fire starter" category..

quasimod

Heh, naw, nothing funnier than tripping blind people with a stick, haha! (<= I'ma keep my eye on this guy from now on...)

Yeah, like, I don't see where the batteries go, LOL. I guess you have to make your own battery holders, huh? Stuff like that would trip me up. I am both willing and able to learn how to use that kind of charger, I'm just surprised it's necessary. I guess I assumed there would be a charger for each battery type that could tell you what condition your batteries were in, do any "balancing" or "conditioning" voodoo necessary, and/or tell you when to throw them out.


For me, batteries have always been something that you just plug in, they work, and you forget about them. I've avoided mods with boosters and gizmos (in part) because I feel like I don't know enough about batteries to handle them competently. Now, I find myself in a position where I need to know more, since I have recently received a boosted, VV mod to use them in. I'm under the impression that means I will need to use the IMR's, but they have no under- or over-discharge protection... and that gives me pause. I know Rocky just grabs a couple of protection circuits from his electronic gizmo storage facility, and slaps 'em on there, but how does everyone else keep from wrecking the batteries? Vape, test, vape, test, vape, test? Can't be.

BTW, Rocky, I'm in Slidell (wave) hiding from my in-laws in a hotel.

quasimod

Sorry for the serial post, but I didn't want this to get lost in an edit:

So, this charger:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/s...dProduct=11444

...says it charges Lion, LiPo, LiFe (A123), NiCd and NiMH, but I have LiFePO4's, and am in the market for the IMR's. So, those are the same as LiPo and NiMH? Or do they just work with that charger in addition to those others listed?

berger

Quasi,
at the bottom of the page of your link is a tab marked files..in that is the pdf manual halfway down..
I wont throw in the obligatory RTFM...

quasimod

OK, but searching the manual for LiFePO4's or IMR-NiMH turns up nothing. So I'm kind of confused why shek linked it. I was kinda looking for this charger:

Attached Thumbnails

berger

Its a cell pack charger / balancer
handles NiCad/NiMH, Lilo, LiPo, Life & Pb but Im sure you have to set it up in the menu display for the type batt and voltages and charge rates etc..
I dont see any use for our application unless you were trying to charge cells in series or something..

quasimod

That's one of my questions, because there are different letters in "LiFePO4" and "IMR Li-ion", and I wonder if that means they are different somehow in the sense that they don't work with that charger.

Same question, because neither "LiFePO4" or "IMR Li-ion" are listed.

Shekinahsgroom

Find a battery holder for your size and connect it with the alligator clips on the charger:

http://www.batteryholders.com/search...Battery+Holder

This link will just give you a better idea of what to look for, or you can buy them there. Best price would probably be Fleebay though....

Rocket found the Turnigy, the one I found (the 106B) is more than double the price:

Here's one of the customer comments for the Turnigy A-6-10:

Turnigy A-6-10 is a really nice product. The firmware of thie charger is exactly same as of any other 50W charger except the charging rate can be adjusted upto 10A and the discharge upto 5A. It has a cool blue backlit which is easily readable in the sunlight or in dark.

The buttons are good and it has all metal body which is a really good feel. The fan is automatic and would start when the temperature rises above the defined limit.

This charger comes with multiple charge lead connectors which you can use with any kind of battery. All ar XT60 connectors. The balance port has a 6 cell balancer to which you can attach the extension port to balance 2-6 cells. There is no AC adapter socket, so you need to use the input supply cables only for powering the charger. You can even use the temperature probe (buy separately) with this charger. Any common temp probe will work. The top and the bottom of this charger are the heat Sinks which become quite warm especially during the discharge phase.

You can even calibrate the charger if you feel the readings are a little incorrect.

For calibrating this charger follow these steps:

1.) Power off the charger.
2.) Press and hold the (dec" and "start" buttons.
3.) Power on the charger. (you will hear 3 beeps in a row). Keep the buttons pressed.
4.) You will enter into the calibration screen where the voltage detected by the charger is displayed on the screen (voltage on output leads).
5.) Attach any battery to the output lea
6.) Using a digital multimeter, correct the reading of the voltage by pressing "inc" or "dec" buttons till the reading matches with that of the multimeter.
7.) Press "Stop" when you are done.
8.) Your charger is calibrated now.

If you're wanting something more simplified, I'll be right back, gotta go get some linkage for ya....

Shekinahsgroom

Rocky is the expert in here, not me, but here's a little help:

http://www.all-battery.com/chargersa...s37vto60v.aspx

quasimod

haha, thanks shek, I do appreciate the legwork. I'm not trying to get you to do the work for me, I was just talking in a general sense about non-techs trying to figure out what to do with some of these batteries. It just seemed to me there would be a charger you can just pop a battery into and it would charge it for you. Of course, I have since discovered the folly of such an idea...

Yikes, they've found me, now I have to do some visiting...

Shekinahsgroom

I'm happy to help Quasi, if I don't physically harm someone in the process...? Emotional harm is another story....

And as far as needing an IMR charger...

I would think that if you can use a li-ion charger on an IMR, I don't see why you couldn't use it on the Turnigy??

But Rocket is the one I'd ask to be sure since he has this Turnigy charger/balancer.


LOL...forgot your camo face paint, did ya?

Rocketman

Opinions follow

A hobby charger is just that, a Hobby Charger. Menu driven with options for setting charge current, termination voltage, and can be used for 1 to several series connected 1.2 volt cells (NiCd, NiMH), 2.2 volt lead acid cells, 3.2 volt LiFePO4, and the various 3.7 volt Lithium (Li-ion, LiMnNi, LollyPolly). Most operate from an external 12 volt source like a 5 amp 12 volt supply (limited to 50 watts) or connected directly to the car battery for charging RC battery packs in the field. Some RC fanatics even carry a lawn tractor battery with them to run the Hobby Charger. Balance connectors go between the charger and the battery pack (usually has main power leads and a balance connector).

Other uses of the Hobby Charger include discharging. This is how some of the really cool graphs are made showing one brand of cell is better than another.

You can take a small handful of lithium-ion cells and spends days doing nothing but charging and discharging to make all kinds of graphs to post or email to your friends
Some people do just this. Sounds like fun to me

You can do some practical functions like charging and discharging several single cells to select matched pairs or sort and grade them. Again, time consuming, but more fun than playing Angry Birds on your phone.

To be practical for single cells you would need a battery holder wired to match the connections on the Hobby Charger. You could destroy a cheap Li-ion charger to make a holder for $5.

So, do I recommend a Hobby Charger for the average vaper? Nope. Go check out the link to the RC forum where several folks discuss how to navigate the menus, hook it up, make it work. These are RC folks with 'some' previous experience with chargers.

For Li-ion cells labeled as 3.6, 3.7 or 3.8 volts, with a 4.2 volt termination, the STANDARD Li-ion charger will work fine. This is for Li-ion, LiMn, LiMnNi, IMR, INR, but NOT LiFePO4. For larger cells 18500, 18650 get one with 500ma charging current per slot. For little cells like 10440, 14350, 16340, get one that has a little less charging current (300ma per slot).

I would stay away from 4 slot Li-ion chargers. Charging 4 18650 cells in a single device requires heavy duty components. Again, might be something reliable out there, might not.

For LiFePO4 I suggest a separate 3.2 volt charger. Although there are models that let the user select termination voltage that is just another opportunity for a user error. Put the switch in the wrong position and things could get ugly.

If you need to charge LiFePO4 cells, get a separate charger.

Note that there are some Li-ion cells designed to be charged up to 4.35 volts (some of the new Tenergy cells are this type). These will not charge to full capacity on a 'Standard' Li-ion, 4.2volt charger. Check the listing closely before buying these.

There may be some easy to use, super smart charger that will tell you the condition of a cell so you can match pairs or monitor aging, but the simplest method just might be a two slot Trustfire TR-001 (with optional 12 volt cord for use in the car/truck) and a cheap meter. The meter would also be useful for checking attys/cartos.

Here are two cheap ones to consider:

http://www.all-battery.com/Tenergy_L...ger-01270.aspx

http://www.all-battery.com/t-3150uni...charger-1.aspx

berger

Thanks Rocky,
but that does beg one question...Ok Im using the TR-001 (several actually...spares are a good thing..) but if they are all coming off the charger at the same voltage..how do I attempt to "match" them?...check them periodically when used as pairs?...is it discharge rates that are the matching issues or just the initial voltages off the charger?

Rocketman

Partial discharge voltage shows capacity between high and low points.
If you change out before the cells quit then a weak cell will show up and be lower than the other.
Terminal voltage will remain normal until the cell is terribly old or weak.
Charge capacity will decrease slowly with age. That's what is most important.
(cell internal resistance also goes up with age and will show as reduced capacity. High resistance cell will also get warmer than a new cell. Voltage will sag more under load but be hard to diagnose in use. Use a Hobby Charger in discharge mode )

Example: A pair of 2200mah cells with one good one (2200mah for real) and one weak cell with only 1500mah. Use 1500mah out of each and the weak one is all used up.

Some folks claim the "front cell" in a pair will discharge a little faster. Probably due to exposure to cosmic rays. My 3S packs don't exhibit that. So watch for it.

berger

Cool..so check them before putting them back on the charger then...as well as off
Oh..I'll look for some of that cosmic ray shielding over in the RC forums...

quasimod

I'd rather re-read month-old forum posts than play Angry Birds, but the complex charging and diagnostic system you described is NOT something I would enjoy.

Good idea, and I was thinking along those lines... I thought of using wood as well, but it's flammable, so maybe not a good idea.

*whew!*

Once again, thank you for all of that useful information, and for managing to answer some ill-articulated questions. You are a gentleman and a scholar, and I appreciate it.

Rocketman

I'm good at making stuff up